Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#211

Post by Shivetya » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 11:57 AM UTC

kypro wrote: post #145

newscracker wrote: post #54

As someone who has appreciated the privacy stance Apple has had and the privacy assisting steps it has taken for a long time (long before iPhone), I believe Apple is coming out to be completely hypocritical and anti-privacy/anti-freedom on this app. I cannot believe that Tim Cook and other senior executives haven't examined this deeper and taken a bold stance to let the app stay! Shame on you, Apple! Even John Gruber…

Apple only cares about privacy because it's a threat to Google and Facebook's business model. They don't care about privacy, they only care about "caring about privacy" when it is good for their business.

Well the same can be said about human rights, they only care about it when it affects their business model in a positive way. if it cost them money they are very willing to turn their backs on it.

privacy is not possible in a world where governments are free to suppress the speech and will of the people. any company claiming otherwise simply sees their bottom line as more important than people, whether they are employees or customers.

To me Apple is the worst here because Tim and team have no shame, they will strut upon their stage at their own conferences about how they stand for rights but when the show lights are off they act completely different.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#212

Post by geomark » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 12:00 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #156

m0xte wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point when the world is legislating our privacy away? It's a pointless self-defeating marketing ploy then and nothing more.

Do you think it is ethical for a company to require it's employees to break the law?

It might be a bit much to require employees to break a law as it might expose individual employees to some legal consequences. But there are plenty of laws that are immoral. There are a number of good examples in the peer comments (some of the laws of Hitler's Germany for example). Any company manager or officer that insists on enforcing such laws is themself immoral. But it takes some skill to craft a company policy that could address the situation adequately.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#213

Post by kalleboo » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 12:01 PM UTC

newscracker wrote: post #62

edvinasbartkus wrote: post #43

When the app is removed from the App Store, does it mean that it disappears from all phones, or it means that the new sales of the app are not possible?

In my understanding, this depends on what action Apple exactly takes. If it just removes it from the App Store, all existing installations on devices would remain and continue to work. If Apple revokes the developer's certificate, then the app would likely fail to launch sometime soon and would be removed. I'm sure there are gaps in my understanding. Corrections are welcome.

I believe these are the different levels they have at their disposal:

- Remotely delete from everyone's devices (Apple has never used this capability, they say the ability is there in the case of malware)

- Remove from the App Store completely (keeps running if you had it installed, you can back it up to iTunes and reinstall from there, can't download from the store. I think they did this with apps that worked their way around AT&T tethering restrictions back in the day when that was a thing)

- Removed from sale (if you installed it before, you can still re-download it from your App Store purchase history)

I don't think certificate revocation is applicable to app store apps - e.g. I can revoke my own dev distribution certificate and it only kills self-hosted Ad Hoc builds. They may have per-developer app store certs only available internally as well but I think they'd use one of the capabilities above instead

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#214

Post by Larrikin » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 12:03 PM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #116

rjf72 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or look at the video preceding this incident, and you'll see that the officers ran ahead of their group, and the kids confronting them were not looking at their phones because they were busy trying not to get shot. Are you saying this video is taken out of context? Please do share any available video evidence. I assure you I tried quite hard to try to find more and this all I came up with! This is the thing that mo…

There are a number of people livestreaming all the protests, including setups where you can watch multiple streams on a page. One of the streamers is a hero who rolls up to protests in a wheelchair. There's also lots and lots of long-form protest footage available, but you need a Chinese speaker to help you Google your way to it.

Can you post some examples or are you keeping them secret on purpose?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#215

Post by asdf333 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 12:04 PM UTC

surprising this is so low given the number of points... i wonder if there is a chinese downvote brigade in action here trying to suppress this story

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#216

Post by yyyk » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 12:10 PM UTC

huffmsa wrote: post #186

There's a certain irony in that 1984 commercial now, isn't there?

It's not irony - we've just misunderstood Apple all these years.

If you look closely at the commercial, Apple never actually said which side they're on. Looking at their actions - they're on the side on the ordered regime defending the users from themselves and from a troublemaker running around with a unlicensed and unauthorized hammer she's holding wrong. They'd just would like the regime to be a bit more stylish.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#217

Post by kalleboo » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 12:11 PM UTC

Illniyar wrote: post #147

moogleii wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the metric is to circumvent or bypass your government, Android is hardly an ideal option either. It very easily also would fall under the "never buy."

Thats's nonsense. You can install any app you want and google has no way of deleting it from your phone. You can root your phone or install completely different OSes. It may not be ideal but it will definitely aid you in circumventing the government.

> google has no way of deleting it from your phone

Is there any reason to believe that Google's "remote application removal feature" is limited to working on Market apps and not any arbitrary bundle ID? https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2010/06/exercising...

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#218

Post by kop316 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 12:13 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #118

austhrow743 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is good. By being better for privacy than the worlds largest advertising company/consumer spy agency, Apple announced its intent to be for all that is good in the world. That it's a shining beacon of morality. Protector of Italian virginity. China is bad. By capitulating to them after having declared themselves the enforcer of all that is good and holy, Apple has thus committed hypocrisy.

Apple has simply said it will pursue user privacy and security to the limits of what the law will allow. That is all.

Actually, Tim Cook said:

"Compromising the security of our personal information can ultimately put our personal safety at risk. That is why encryption has become so important to all of us."

https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

That to me is hypocritical as to what Apple is doing in China.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#219

Post by noisem4ker » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 12:15 PM UTC

gigatexal wrote: post #174

Nerdfest wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a company that restricts what you can and can't install on your own device and you're surprised they're okay with authoritarianism?

They restrict what you can install for example to protect users from ransomware and surveillance capitalists and the like. They are also always championing freedom and expression and the like. But they must appease China to keep that market open to phone sales sadly.

They also restrict what can compete with Apple's own products. Their interests are clear.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#220

Post by latexr » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 12:19 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #118

austhrow743 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is good. By being better for privacy than the worlds largest advertising company/consumer spy agency, Apple announced its intent to be for all that is good in the world. That it's a shining beacon of morality. Protector of Italian virginity. China is bad. By capitulating to them after having declared themselves the enforcer of all that is good and holy, Apple has thus committed hypocrisy.

Apple has simply said it will pursue user privacy and security to the limits of what the law will allow. That is all.

No, Apple unambiguously said on multiple occasions that they “believe privacy is a fundamental human right”[1].

[1]: https://www.apple.com/privacy/