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macOS 10.15 Vista

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Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#301

Post by dpkonofa »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #289
dpkonofa wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, in this particular case, the user was using software (Alfred 3) that he knew wasn't going to work right on Catalina prior to upgrading it. Newer versions of Alfred exist that support the newer permissions model in Catalina. He knew that version wasn't fully compatible with Catalina and chose to install it anyways. A normal user isn't going to get that.

Uh, okay. Now explain all the other software requesting permissions: - Acorn - HazelHelper - Plex Media Server - Keyboard Maestro - Parallels Access - Bartender 3 - Arq Agent - Nextcloud - Tweetbot - 1Password - Spark - Drafts - OmniFocus - Dash - Bear - iCloud If you have dozens of apps asking for permission, then you need to have a better system of displaying those requests than one off popups/notifications. This i…

Except that's not true at all unless every single one of these is an old version of the software that hasn't been updated since High Sierra. Any app that was developed using the sandboxing paradigm from High Sierra (and nearly every app in that list has been updated to support this) would not need to ask for all those permissions.

This would not be common for the vast majority of users and it's only caused by someone explicitly ignoring warnings and notices. It may be a little more common for power users but the average user may get 1 or 2 of those prompts and nothing more. The OP is only in the situation they're in because they either upgraded the OS without updating the individual apps or they purposely ignored a prior prompt to give access.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#302

Post by K0SM0S »

tgv wrote: post #172
ashishb wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WiFi, battery, and sleep. Have these problems been fixed with Linux on laptops?

People here seem to have had positive experiences, which may be due to a bit of fanboyism or Apple hate, but a relatively technically capable colleague tried to install Ubuntu onto a Dell recently, and failed: grahpics and network issues; no idea if it could sleep. Two days of work lost, so now he has a mac.

Sounds to me like your colleague did not use a laptop supporting Linux (did he try to ask Dell directly?), in which case it would not be "work" but amateur "tinkering".

Even if it does install and seem to work well at first, a non-supported device can break the OS install any time due to some driver / firmware change etc., and you'd have no one to blame but yourself — no promise was ever made by Dell or Linux that this particular device+OS would work.

It's just not what you should do in a business / work setting. We use supported devices — for Ubuntu, for RHEL, for ZFS, for pfSense, for VMware or Xen or HyperV, etc. — because we need someone to call when things don't work, and we need to be sure they just won't fail or break 99.99% of the time. Short of that, you're on your own, and it's no revelation that Windows works on all laptops but Linux simply doesn't — it works "most of the time", "with some caveats quite often". Blame manufacturers who don't write drivers for Linux (looking at you, Qualcomm, Nvidia...), blame OEMs who select those parts for their machines, but don't blame Linux itself — you get it for free with more than 4,000 drivers included last I checked.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#303

Post by soraminazuki »

my123 wrote: post #299
soraminazuki wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s so upsetting about switching the default shell to zsh? It’s compatible enough that most users wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. Besides, licensing problems would persist no matter how much more effort Apple is willing to put into macs.

They have a big shared codebase between iOS and macOS, so them adding GPLv3 tools can end badly with the anti-tivoization clauses.

You mean they have GPLv2 code in iOS?

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#304

Post by mynameisvlad »

dpkonofa wrote: post #301
mynameisvlad wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, okay. Now explain all the other software requesting permissions: - Acorn - HazelHelper - Plex Media Server - Keyboard Maestro - Parallels Access - Bartender 3 - Arq Agent - Nextcloud - Tweetbot - 1Password - Spark - Drafts - OmniFocus - Dash - Bear - iCloud If you have dozens of apps asking for permission, then you need to have a better system of displaying those requests than one off popups/notifications. This i…

Except that's not true at all unless every single one of these is an old version of the software that hasn't been updated since High Sierra. Any app that was developed using the sandboxing paradigm from High Sierra (and nearly every app in that list has been updated to support this) would not need to ask for all those permissions. This would not be common for the vast majority of users and it's only caused by someone…

Did you actually look at the article you're replying to?

I literally took the screenshot that was posted and enumerated every application asking for permissions. If it happened to them, it'll happen to many, many users. Especially if those apps are updating outside of MAS.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#305

Post by Razengan »

Razengan wrote: post #122

Apple seems to be forgetting their own credo against nag-based security: https://i.imgur.com/qbUy5aH.png (from an ancient WWDC slide mocking the Windows approach.) They may have overdone it in a few cases, and not done anything where it's really needed (like a unified list of all third-party startup items, such as Google’s sneaky Keystone malware, or seeing all outgoing data and connection attempts like Little Snitch…

For those curious about the WWDC session that slide is from, I can't find the exact session and timestamp right now, but the same things were said as far back as WWDC 2011, in Session 203: "Introducing App Sandbox"

Which..is a little harder to access now:

https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/387070/apple-has-ju...

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#306

Post by Lio »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #294
Lio wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry maybe I'm not explaining what I want to very well. On the Mac it will suspend to RAM but also dump to an image file at the same time. If the mac runs out of power it will later restore from the image once power is restored. That's possible on Linux using hybrid-sleep and suspend-then-hibernate but they require a swapfile. I haven't yet found a way to have a swapfile without allowing that swapfile to be used for…

How often do you upgrade your drive? If you expect to change it sometime in next 5 years or so, I wouldn't worry about using swap on SSD at all.

To be honest I hadn’t really considered that. I’ve never actually upgraded an SSD in a laptop.

I guess it may be more the thought that it will kill the SSD than the reality but it’s still something I’d prefer to avoid if there’s a solution.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#307

Post by Lio »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #296
chungus_khan wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac OS does the same in this regard though, but in my experience neither Mac OS or Linux are particularly aggressive at using swap anyway.

Yup, macOS dynamically allocates swap files on disk when they're needed - that's why you may see 0 swap space in htop, which doesn't mean that it doesn't use swap.

That’s interesting. I wonder can Linux be persuaded to dynamically alter the swap space from 0 as part of the suspend script?

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#308

Post by mantoto »

eikenberry wrote: post #191
mantoto wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like my windows 10. I also like my arch Linux as well. Even my MacOS rund stable enough that I don't have any issues with that. But if you don't keep your Debian up to date the chance that you can't longer upgrade it is high. After 1-2 years.

You can update Debian many years later. I just updated a system over multiple versions no problem.

I had packages just gone on enough occasion s.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#309

Post by chungus_khan »

Lio wrote: post #307
seba_dos1 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, macOS dynamically allocates swap files on disk when they're needed - that's why you may see 0 swap space in htop, which doesn't mean that it doesn't use swap.

That’s interesting. I wonder can Linux be persuaded to dynamically alter the swap space from 0 as part of the suspend script?

I think if you were to use a swapfile and set swappiness to zero it should behave like this.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#310

Post by 013a »

threeseed wrote: post #151
013a wrote: post #87

I'm astounded with some of the user security dialogs that Macs display. I got one today: "VSCode wants to make some changes. Deny or Allow." That was the exact wording. Seriously? THIS. BENEFITS. NO. ONE. The only thing I can figure is that, somehow, Mac has required applications to display something to the user to get their permission to make some substantial system-level changes. But the application is, I guess?, a…

> centralized certificate signing authority to install something, I Trust That Application You mean like how Facebook trusted the Cambridge Analytica apps which then went on to steal huge amounts of data. Or how about all of the legitimate apps which include metrics libraries which have then gone on to steal huge amounts of data. You simply can't trust the original signing process these days.

You can't just Give Up and live a life without any Trust. That's like experiencing a bad breakup then deciding that you never want to be in a relationship again, because being vulnerable is too uncomfortable.

Computing is strikingly similar. You're vulnerable when you use any service where any level of personal information or even code execution is passed to a third party. You're vulnerable even when you buy a VM from DigitalOcean, or when you edit a document on Google Drive, or when you install some binary from a company. But that's alright; to be vulnerable is to be human, and there are tons of very tangible benefits to allowing yourself to be vulnerable.

There are alternatives. You can live like RMS and be so scared of vulnerability that you lock yourself in a self-imposed computing exile. I don't trust the code; I need to see it. I don't trust the authors; I need to be able to make changes. I don't trust my contributors; they need to open-source what they make. I don't trust service providers; I need to host my own servers. That's a very sad outlook on life.

Facebook fucked up. In fact, they've fucked up so much that they aren't deserving of my trust anymore. Everyone is allowed to have different opinions about who they trust, but Apple, Google, Microsoft, and many other companies have not fucked up to the same degree, and are still deserving of my trust. I don't love Google especially, and tend to think that they're headed down the same path, but they still do a lot right. Maybe I'll be burned someday. But that's alright.

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