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macOS 10.15 Vista

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Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#121

Post by asdff »

ericd wrote: post #118
013a wrote: post #87

I'm astounded with some of the user security dialogs that Macs display. I got one today: "VSCode wants to make some changes. Deny or Allow." That was the exact wording. Seriously? THIS. BENEFITS. NO. ONE. The only thing I can figure is that, somehow, Mac has required applications to display something to the user to get their permission to make some substantial system-level changes. But the application is, I guess?, a…

My favorite are the dialogs whose only options are "Do the thing we want" or "Learn more about the thing we want" with no option to dismiss. Slightly less terrible are the daily dialogs that give the options "Do the thing we want" or "Bug me tomorrow". More and more, Apple devs seem to have contempt for the idea that the user should be in control. They haven't quite descended to Microsoft levels of "We're restarting…

Just as I've read this comment, I got a 60 second restart countdown notification for untold software updates. Like what if I got up to do something found all my shit locked up behind an update that to date cannot report an accurate timeframe (why bother reporting one at all if they haven't been right since my first mac with tiger). I'm not even on catalina yet, so maybe that's it.

I don't know what's with microsoft and apple. When I'm in the middle of using my computer is not the time to close everything and lock the machine down for 30+ minutes for an update. I'm going to say no every single time.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#122

Post by Razengan »

Apple seems to be forgetting their own credo against nag-based security:

https://i.imgur.com/qbUy5aH.png (from an ancient WWDC slide mocking the Windows approach.)

They may have overdone it in a few cases, and not done anything where it's really needed (like a unified list of all third-party startup items, such as Google’s sneaky Keystone malware, or seeing all outgoing data and connection attempts like Little Snitch shows), but as other commenters have mentioned, it lets me catch various apps overreaching into my computer for things they just don't need to function, and I definitely appreciate that.

Another thing I wish they would do is provide an infallible way to verify system password request dialogs. Not long ago DropBox used to show you a fake dialog that then stole your administrator password. There should be a list inside System Preferences where you can go and see all the authentic password request dialogs that are currently being shown.

In short, they should move away from nagging to better monitoring and reporting.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#123

Post by ohazi »

Maybe we should be angry?

Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore.

Windows hasn't been usable since 7; the current version literally requires you to let it reboot itself on a 9-5 schedule. And now this with Apple, again.

Can we move on already? Most of us spend at least half of our waking hours interacting with a desktop operating system, most of us use either OS X or Windows, and yet both of these companies have made it clear that their desktop OSes are no longer a priority! Why are so many of us still putting up with this?

I know people like to knock Linux-on-the-desktop, but you know what? I can go buy a Thinkpad, spend 20 minutes putting Debian or Ubuntu on it, and it'll just work, and I'll get software updates forever. I used to care about flashy widgets back when Gnome was cloning old OS X features, but now I just use XFCE because it looks reasonable, it works, and it stays the fuck out of my way. And when there are bugs, people make a little noise, and then they get fixed. Remind me again what version of bash Apple ships? I don't have the time or the energy to work around that crap anymore.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#124

Post by asdff »

dpkonofa wrote: post #64
nikanj wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really irks me is the touchbar. It's never going away, not because people like it, but because so many would lose face if they admitted it was a bad idea.

I don't understand why people feel this way. Apple's doing away with 3D Touch because of the data that says that people don't use it. What makes you think they wouldn't do the same with the Touch Bar? Despite that, I love the Touch Bar. I do tons of video and audio editing and it's super-convenient for me. It seems like HN just has a higher noise ratio against the TB because it's mostly programmers and a high percent…

What irks me is that it's an added cost for not much functionality for like 90% of people on top of an already expensive laptop with other compromises (namely base storage and memory). If it was just an option, you wouldn't hear all this bitching on the internet.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#125

Post by etchalon »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #120
etchalon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An individual window would have completely destroyed the point. The point was to make you aware of what permissions the applications you use require access to. And to get explicit permission from the user.

An individual window would have completely destroyed the point. Hardly. Apple could have used the OSX installer to scan two or three common locations for applications and do a bit of static analysis. Apple could have put the permissions notifications in the notification center with an annoying nag screen every hour or two for the first ~30 days turning into an immediate prompt after that (or after all detected progra…

That sounds like deeply awful UX.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#126

Post by Beefpro9 »

ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

As of Catalina, Apple has switched the default shell to zsh and nags you when you launch bash.

That said... I agree. Between this, the abysmal keyboard failure rate, and some of the user-hostile choices they've made, I've switched to a Razer laptop.

Windows 10 Pro lets you avoid most of the jank, by the way. But, I'm only on it as an eventual migration path to something running XFCE (my favorite wm due to its out of box usability).

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#127

Post by inferiorhuman »

etchalon wrote: post #125
inferiorhuman wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An individual window would have completely destroyed the point. Hardly. Apple could have used the OSX installer to scan two or three common locations for applications and do a bit of static analysis. Apple could have put the permissions notifications in the notification center with an annoying nag screen every hour or two for the first ~30 days turning into an immediate prompt after that (or after all detected progra…

That sounds like deeply awful UX.

That sounds like deeply awful UX.

Indeed, almost as bad as popping up countless dialogs per application.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#128

Post by dpkonofa »

asdff wrote: post #124
dpkonofa wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people feel this way. Apple's doing away with 3D Touch because of the data that says that people don't use it. What makes you think they wouldn't do the same with the Touch Bar? Despite that, I love the Touch Bar. I do tons of video and audio editing and it's super-convenient for me. It seems like HN just has a higher noise ratio against the TB because it's mostly programmers and a high percent…

What irks me is that it's an added cost for not much functionality for like 90% of people on top of an already expensive laptop with other compromises (namely base storage and memory). If it was just an option, you wouldn't hear all this bitching on the internet.

>for like 90% of people

Citation needed. I would venture to say that more people use it than you think.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#129

Post by dpkonofa »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #78
dpkonofa wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You know, this is a pretty apt analogy. Disagree wholeheartedly. It definitely has "hints" of Vista band-aid rips in the same way that shit like La Croix has "hints" of flavor but Vista was one of the worst OS releases I ever had the pleasure of being part of, only behind Windows ME. It took Vista a really long time to be a stable, fully-usable OS and, while I'm glad for the steps they took with it, their execution…

> On top of that, this is completely due to the user. What? All the user did was install Catalina and leave it alone for a few hours. How is this all "due to the user"?

Because, in this particular case, the user was using software (Alfred 3) that he knew wasn't going to work right on Catalina prior to upgrading it. Newer versions of Alfred exist that support the newer permissions model in Catalina. He knew that version wasn't fully compatible with Catalina and chose to install it anyways. A normal user isn't going to get that.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#130

Post by ashishb »

ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

WiFi, battery, and sleep. Have these problems been fixed with Linux on laptops?
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