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macOS 10.15 Vista

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Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#61

Post by dpkonofa »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #55
etchalon wrote: post #3

I understand this is chaos, but it's chaos because it has to be. There's no way to move users from an world of opaque "if it's an application, it can do anything it wants" to a world of "applications should ask me when they want to do something" transparency. The idea that Apple doesn't care about the Mac because it's trying to explicitly improve our privacy and security is … weird.

I expect applications to have access to my desktop. I do not need to be asked. It would be like asking permission to access my clipboard, or use my speakers, or read my keyboard. If you bombard users with dialogues for every little thing, all you will do is train them to habitually click yes . Now you have lowered security, because users will ignore the more serious warnings too. And you've wasted everyone's time in…

You expect applications to have access to your desktop?

You should only ever expect the user to have access to the desktop and, even then, the only apps that would ever prompt for access to the desktop are those that aren't updated for High Sierra and above. On the latest versions of macOS, the Desktop folder is shared by iCloud. This is definitely not an instance where security has been lowered nor is this the standard behavior of the new OS.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#63

Post by dpkonofa »

Gaelan wrote: post #27

You know, this is a pretty apt analogy. Vista (apparently) was considered terrible primarily because it ripped off the band-aid and made a bunch of inconvenient but important-for-security-in-the-long-term changes. [0] [0]: https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity/status/85185740489147187...

>You know, this is a pretty apt analogy.

Disagree wholeheartedly. It definitely has "hints" of Vista band-aid rips in the same way that shit like La Croix has "hints" of flavor but Vista was one of the worst OS releases I ever had the pleasure of being part of, only behind Windows ME. It took Vista a really long time to be a stable, fully-usable OS and, while I'm glad for the steps they took with it, their execution was terrible.

On top of that, this is completely due to the user.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#64

Post by dpkonofa »

nikanj wrote: post #48
yowlingcat wrote: post #8

Very sad to agree with this entire post. I hate to essentialize it to an already checked and problematic mythology of Jobs-Ives, but it seems like all of the air left the sails after Jobs passed. The OS versions are getting unreservedly worse, likewise with the hardware -- it's active regression rather than stagnation. When it comes to having a quality laptop and OS to get work done, I would at least be happy with st…

What really irks me is the touchbar. It's never going away, not because people like it, but because so many would lose face if they admitted it was a bad idea.

I don't understand why people feel this way. Apple's doing away with 3D Touch because of the data that says that people don't use it. What makes you think they wouldn't do the same with the Touch Bar?

Despite that, I love the Touch Bar. I do tons of video and audio editing and it's super-convenient for me. It seems like HN just has a higher noise ratio against the TB because it's mostly programmers and a high percentage of them are tied to a physical escape key. As a front-end dev myself who uses VS Code, I feel like that audience is just going to keep shrinking while the percent of people that will find benefits to the TB will probably grow.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#65

Post by cwilby »

I recently tried again at setting up Ubuntu on my 2013 Macbook, after multiple attempts over the years that didn't pan out due to Wifi issues, battery life, graphics drivers, touchpad etc.

As of 2019, it's flippin' fantastic. Most issues above are gone and Docker development experience in particular is vastly improved over Docker for Mac.

With the direction Apple is going, I don't see a road back soon.

Disclaimer - everyone's mileage varies, just sharing my odometer.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#66

Post by kayfox »

kbenson wrote: post #49
Yetanfou wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that, plus the fact that it was resource-heavy. This was compounded by the fact that a lot of hardware was sold as being 'Vista-ready' while in reality being incapable of running the overly-fancy graphics-heavy 'glass' shell. It also had a number of performance problems (e.g. slow file copy) which only got sorted out in Windows 7. Oh, let's not forget the fact that Vista was supposed to be Longhorn, the OS of t…

> Oh, let's not forget the fact that Vista was supposed to be Longhorn, the OS of the future with a database file system This sounded interesting when I first heard about it, long before Vista came out. Now when I see it I wonder what they were trying to do. A file system is a database, with a well understood user API. So what were they going to add? Tagging? Application level views of the system? None of t hat seems…

Lots of file systems at the time were hierarchical databases, but the file-system Microsoft was working on was to be more a hybrid with the ability to find files based on specific criteria right away, rather than having a search process walk the tree looking for something.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#67

Post by dpkonofa »

sys_64738 wrote: post #25

Is this not a slight on Windows Vista? By SP1 they had pretty much resolved all the UAC hiccups.

Yes, but that took nearly 2 years (1.5 if you're only counting from individual public sales) and the launch was terrible. I'm glad that Vista happened because it very much needed to but they really shit the bed on its release.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#68

Post by api »

etchalon wrote: post #3

I understand this is chaos, but it's chaos because it has to be. There's no way to move users from an world of opaque "if it's an application, it can do anything it wants" to a world of "applications should ask me when they want to do something" transparency. The idea that Apple doesn't care about the Mac because it's trying to explicitly improve our privacy and security is … weird.

It's just change = bad without looking at what is being changed and why.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#69

Post by burk96 »

toomim wrote: post #52
etchalon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An individual window would have completely destroyed the point. The point was to make you aware of what permissions the applications you use require access to. And to get explicit permission from the user.

You could do that within a single window.

You certainly could, however I guarantee a huge majority of users wouldn't read a lick of what they were agreeing to.

Individual popups don't completely solve this, but it makes more obvious that a specific application is requesting a large amount of permissions. They're a bit more digestible to the crowd that won't bother to read an alert longer than one line.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#70

Post by melvinroest »

cwilby wrote: post #65

I recently tried again at setting up Ubuntu on my 2013 Macbook, after multiple attempts over the years that didn't pan out due to Wifi issues, battery life, graphics drivers, touchpad etc. As of 2019, it's flippin' fantastic. Most issues above are gone and Docker development experience in particular is vastly improved over Docker for Mac. With the direction Apple is going, I don't see a road back soon. Disclaimer - e…

Huh, that's quite the contrary to my Mac Mini 2012 experience. My Raspberry Pi wasn't here yet and I wanted a web server.

Yea, Wifi didn't immediately work, but with some Googling you figure out how to find the right driver and use modprobe (or whatever it was) to load it in.

Though, I do have my fair share of Ubuntu install horror stories, so I guess I'm simply lucky when it comes to Mac and Ubuntu.

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