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macOS 10.15 Vista

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Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#291

Post by Lio »

JustFinishedBSG wrote: post #280
Lio wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be missing something but doesn't that still depend on swap space and having a swapfile and virtual memory set up? I'm fine with having a swapfile but I don't want it used for anything other than Suspend-to-disk. i.e. I don't want the SSD being hit with multiple writes caused by VM.

No they just enter lower power states and keep everything in RAM. I don't even have a swap and it works fine.

Sorry maybe I'm not explaining what I want to very well.

On the Mac it will suspend to RAM but also dump to an image file at the same time. If the mac runs out of power it will later restore from the image once power is restored.

That's possible on Linux using hybrid-sleep and suspend-then-hibernate but they require a swapfile.

I haven't yet found a way to have a swapfile without allowing that swapfile to be used for virtual memory too. I worry that virtual RAM will eat my SSD.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#292

Post by chungus_khan »

Lio wrote: post #267
phoe-krk wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like that’s possible but it requires a swapfile to save state to. Has macOS solved this issue differently? Do they save RAM state to some non-SSD non-volatile memory, or do they just not care and dump it to SSD anyway?

It's not the swapfile that's the issue it's having the swapfile also be used for virtual memory. If it was only used for suspend that would be fine because it would only be written to when you suspend the laptop, which in the grand scheme of things is pretty rare compared to writes caused by virtual memory swapping.

Mac OS does the same in this regard though, but in my experience neither Mac OS or Linux are particularly aggressive at using swap anyway.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#293

Post by yowlingcat »

bradknowles wrote: post #29
yowlingcat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the hardware side: keyboard, touchbar, touchpad to keyboard ratio. On the software side: slowness but more importantly a general decrease of opinionated cohesion, and an increase in odd UX decisions. Facetime calls to my iPhone trigger alerts on all of my devices, even if I'd prefer it to just be my phone (I rarely use Facetime on my machine). Beyond that, there are too many useless popups that interrupt me in wha…

1. Open the Facetime app. 2. Open the Preferences menu. 3. De-select the "Calls from iPhone" checkbox. 4. Done.

It's not a great default behavior in the first place, and indicative of other issues.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#294

Post by seba_dos1 »

Lio wrote: post #291
JustFinishedBSG wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they just enter lower power states and keep everything in RAM. I don't even have a swap and it works fine.

Sorry maybe I'm not explaining what I want to very well. On the Mac it will suspend to RAM but also dump to an image file at the same time. If the mac runs out of power it will later restore from the image once power is restored. That's possible on Linux using hybrid-sleep and suspend-then-hibernate but they require a swapfile. I haven't yet found a way to have a swapfile without allowing that swapfile to be used for…

How often do you upgrade your drive? If you expect to change it sometime in next 5 years or so, I wouldn't worry about using swap on SSD at all.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#295

Post by coldtea »

UIZealot wrote: post #265
coldtea wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm aware of that. But they are not exactly the same, are they? Yes, in minor ways I already mentioned. > Isn't that what usability and polish are all about? Yes, and as I already wrote: "Apple has done that for both platforms.". You don't get a lesser Metal or a lesser APFS on macOS vs iOS, or less UI integration. > I know, and that's why we all love Snow Leopard. Why the regression since then? I'm not particularl…

> Yes, and as I already wrote: "Apple has done that for both platforms." Yes I saw it the first time. They certainly did it. But we're talking about how well they did it, aren't we? Usability and polish? > I'm not particularly fond of Snow Leopard over other releases, nor I see much "regression since then". You clearly aren't and clearly don't, but quite a few macOS users are, and do. Here's a sampling of regressions…

>Yes I saw it the first time. They certainly did it. But we're talking about how well they did it, aren't we? Usability and polish?

Can you be specific? What exactly is the problem with "usability" and "polish" of said features I've mentioned, like Metal, APFS, Swift, SwingUI, etc? The only credible example I could think of that's unpolished is Catalyst (for porting iOS apps to Mac, unified backend) which is a work in progress...

>You clearly aren't and clearly don't, but quite a few macOS users are, and do.

Bad for them I guess. I, however, linked to a pro and well respected OS X reviewer, so there's that...

>Here's a sampling of regressions for your perusal:

I can give you tons of reports like those for any version you wish. Here's from an article about the myth of the "stable" Snow Leopard:

"Initial experiences with Snow Leopard weren’t as blissful as more recent commentary remembers. The troubled rollout of MobileMe, iCloud’s precursor, was still an open wound. Soon after release, a major bug was discovered in Snow Leopard that would cause the home directories of guest accounts to be wiped completely. The issue was prevalent enough that Apple publicly responded and later issued an update, 10.6.2, to address the problem. Early updates to Snow Leopard were packed with fixes to a long list of bugs. A 2009 article from iLounge on Snow Leopard’s reliability is filled with comments from frustrated users, some considering moving back to Leopard. Time heals all wounds, right?"

https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/31/snow-leopard-became-reliabili...

>If you like the new looks, good for you I guess.

Are there many people on record that they don't like them? I've never read any major complaints about the "new looks" anywhere. In fact the Dark Mode was almost universally praised...

Not to mention the "new looks" are just incremental evolution (and mostly refinement) of how OS X looked since forever. What exactly don't you like? Anything concrete?

Prefer this look? (10.2):

https://zdnet4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2014/07/31/deed4628-185f...

Or this (10.4):

http://blandname.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/mac-os-x-104...

Or maybe this (Snow Leopard):

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/20090828/snow-leopard-leak.png

I'll take this at any day:

https://media.idownloadblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/m...

(Not to mention the dark mode)

>I don't have any numbers. What I do have, is the experience running these successive releases on the same laptop. And it has definitely not been positive.

Whatever...

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#296

Post by seba_dos1 »

chungus_khan wrote: post #292
Lio wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the swapfile that's the issue it's having the swapfile also be used for virtual memory. If it was only used for suspend that would be fine because it would only be written to when you suspend the laptop, which in the grand scheme of things is pretty rare compared to writes caused by virtual memory swapping.

Mac OS does the same in this regard though, but in my experience neither Mac OS or Linux are particularly aggressive at using swap anyway.

Yup, macOS dynamically allocates swap files on disk when they're needed - that's why you may see 0 swap space in htop, which doesn't mean that it doesn't use swap.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#297

Post by seba_dos1 »

ashishb wrote: post #130
ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

WiFi, battery, and sleep. Have these problems been fixed with Linux on laptops?

Never had such issues in any laptop I bought over past 15 years. It's just a matter of choosing good hardware.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#298

Post by blub »

ryandrake wrote: post #277
blub wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge step forward, because some of the bad actors that have ruined mobile by abusing every possible API to read whatever they can get their hands on are also developing for the desktop. The article is a pathological example anyway, because I got zero prompts even on my work machine. And Vista was a good step forward also back then, but people can't be bothered to take care of their data. This is why security w…

The article is asking the wrong question. He’s asking “Why is Apple doing this to me?” when Apple is just the messenger. He should be asking “Why on earth are all these little 3rd party utilities running at startup and asking for all of this access?” Personally, if I encountered this mess, I’d be shamed, inspired to meditate a bit on my own personal computing hygiene.

Indeed, and just like in the real world many computer users do the equivalent of not even washing their hands after using the bathroom.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#299

Post by my123 »

soraminazuki wrote: post #256
Beefpro9 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of Catalina, Apple has switched the default shell to zsh and nags you when you launch bash. That said... I agree. Between this, the abysmal keyboard failure rate, and some of the user-hostile choices they've made, I've switched to a Razer laptop. Windows 10 Pro lets you avoid most of the jank, by the way. But, I'm only on it as an eventual migration path to something running XFCE (my favorite wm due to its out of…

What’s so upsetting about switching the default shell to zsh? It’s compatible enough that most users wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. Besides, licensing problems would persist no matter how much more effort Apple is willing to put into macs.

They have a big shared codebase between iOS and macOS, so them adding GPLv3 tools can end badly with the anti-tivoization clauses.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#300

Post by eikenberry »

grokavi wrote: post #264
eikenberry wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can update Debian many years later. I just updated a system over multiple versions no problem.

Yes, you can upgrade after several years. But you can't skip a version. If you started at 8, you need to upgrade to 9 and then to 10. Can't skip 9.

Sure, but all versions of Debian are still available so I don't see why that is a problem... Except as an annoyance due to the extra work.
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