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macOS 10.15 Vista

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Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#201

Post by Dylan16807 »

zamalek wrote: post #157
ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

> the current monstrosity literally requires you to let it reboot itself on a 9-5 schedule. * the previous monstrosity. Windows will now let you carry on without updating until seriously important security updates are a month old. They really do have to force the hand of ignorant users eventually, else Microsoft gets blamed for an insecure OS. I also don't understand where you get the idea that msft doesn't care abou…

> Windows will now let you carry on without updating until seriously important security updates are a month old.

If I specifically tell it not to install, yes.

If I want it to automatically install everything, then give me a notice it needs to reboot? Then I keep having windows shut down in the middle of the night, right after installing, no notice, no "forcing the hand eventually". Has this changed in the last couple months?

At least they seem to have finally figured out how to get virus definition updates automatically while reboot-needing updates are set to notify.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#202

Post by haspok »

ohazi wrote: post #142
ashishb wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WiFi, battery, and sleep. Have these problems been fixed with Linux on laptops?

Wifi: The advice from five years ago was to select/buy the Intel wifi card. Those are the only ones I've used, and they've all Just Worked. Intel cards are the only option if you're buying a Thinkpad. Sleep and hibernate: Works on every Lenovo I've used. Battery: My most recent laptop gets around 8-9 hours with a new battery on a normal workload, and when it drops to 3 hours, I buy a new battery.

On newer kernels (4.8+) and latest Ubuntu my Thinkpad L390 freezes consistently when I try to suspend. It's gotten a bit better with 5.0.0.31, now suspend works 50% of the cases when I select it manually from the menu, and the laptop is connected to power. Otherwise, 90% freeze.

Even my old trusty XPS 13 started not to go to sleep 1 out of 10 times. There must have been a serious regression in the kernel, but no one seems to care.

For this reason alone, I started to seriously consider giving up Linux on the desktop.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#203

Post by dwaite »

makecheck wrote: post #114

It seems to me that for the sake of user experience they should really, really try to automatically coalesce multiple system messages and notifications that appear while others have not yet been dismissed. For example, automatically grow the first alert into a list with checkboxes or something if another alert shows up, so that the user can reply to all of them in a sane way.

The dialogs are meant to be presented in context so that the user understands _why_ they are being asked for a privacy-impacting decision. Applications rely on this so that they may ask for permission within context.

E.g., a retail company app that asks to track location permissions on start will often get denied. That same app asking for location permissions when the user says 'find nearest stores' will have decent success.

Promoting it up to a system-level coalesced set of notifications both eliminates the benefits of asking for permissions in contexts and the motivation to stop asking for permissions out of context. It also creates a problem in some apps where the prompt is modal, because the API is blocked until the question is answered.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#204

Post by davedx »

ashishb wrote: post #130
ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

WiFi, battery, and sleep. Have these problems been fixed with Linux on laptops?

Regarding sleep: Windows still doesn’t get it right - my daughter plays Roblox on my wife’s Dell laptop, as she’s 5 she just closes the lid with the game running when she’s done. I sometimes hear the fan going before I go to bed later, because apparently a “slept” windows laptop is still merrily letting whatever game was running render 60 fps with the lid shut. Bit silly, and probably awful for her battery life

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#205

Post by Dylan16807 »

bskap wrote: post #200
jeroenhd wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is perfectly allowed to ship a newer version, they'd just have to share some of their special sauce. Not entirely unreasonable in my opinion. Apple doesn't want to ship a new version because they don't want people to see how they've modified bash. I don't know what patents or top secret features they've added to make their version of bash incompatible with GPL, as they're allowed to ship GPL code in a closed so…

It's not a GPL problem. It's a GPLv3 problem. Most likely the anti-tivoization clause. Linux, like the old version of Bash that Apple is shipping, is licensed under GPL v2. I suspect Microsoft is also very careful to make sure they don't ship any GPL v3 components with Windows itself, even when they're available via separate download, because they want to be able to ship locked down devices.

Locked down devices don't get to use WSL in the first place.

And I don't see what the problem is. Okay, so they'd have to let you replace the bash binary. That doesn't give you any abilities you don't already have.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#206

Post by thawaway1837 »

bskap wrote: post #200
jeroenhd wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is perfectly allowed to ship a newer version, they'd just have to share some of their special sauce. Not entirely unreasonable in my opinion. Apple doesn't want to ship a new version because they don't want people to see how they've modified bash. I don't know what patents or top secret features they've added to make their version of bash incompatible with GPL, as they're allowed to ship GPL code in a closed so…

It's not a GPL problem. It's a GPLv3 problem. Most likely the anti-tivoization clause. Linux, like the old version of Bash that Apple is shipping, is licensed under GPL v2. I suspect Microsoft is also very careful to make sure they don't ship any GPL v3 components with Windows itself, even when they're available via separate download, because they want to be able to ship locked down devices.

That still doesn’t answer how MS is able to ship an entire Linux OS which obviously contains the newest versions of bash and many other binaries without apparently having licensing issues that Apple does.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#207

Post by yabadabadoes »

Razengan wrote: post #122

Apple seems to be forgetting their own credo against nag-based security: https://i.imgur.com/qbUy5aH.png (from an ancient WWDC slide mocking the Windows approach.) They may have overdone it in a few cases, and not done anything where it's really needed (like a unified list of all third-party startup items, such as Google’s sneaky Keystone malware, or seeing all outgoing data and connection attempts like Little Snitch…

> Another thing I wish they would do is provide an infallible way to verify system password request dialogs.

You are requesting trusted path (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_path) for windows the ctrl-alt-delete sequence is apparently used to implement their trusted path, so it should have been designed to foreground its own active windows, minimize non trusted windows, or similar.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#208

Post by jve »

Razengan wrote: post #122

Apple seems to be forgetting their own credo against nag-based security: https://i.imgur.com/qbUy5aH.png (from an ancient WWDC slide mocking the Windows approach.) They may have overdone it in a few cases, and not done anything where it's really needed (like a unified list of all third-party startup items, such as Google’s sneaky Keystone malware, or seeing all outgoing data and connection attempts like Little Snitch…

> https://i.imgur.com/qbUy5aH.png (from an ancient WWDC slide mocking the Windows approach.)

That's funny

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#209

Post by zozbot234 »

haspok wrote: post #202
ohazi wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wifi: The advice from five years ago was to select/buy the Intel wifi card. Those are the only ones I've used, and they've all Just Worked. Intel cards are the only option if you're buying a Thinkpad. Sleep and hibernate: Works on every Lenovo I've used. Battery: My most recent laptop gets around 8-9 hours with a new battery on a normal workload, and when it drops to 3 hours, I buy a new battery.

On newer kernels (4.8+) and latest Ubuntu my Thinkpad L390 freezes consistently when I try to suspend. It's gotten a bit better with 5.0.0.31, now suspend works 50% of the cases when I select it manually from the menu, and the laptop is connected to power. Otherwise, 90% freeze. Even my old trusty XPS 13 started not to go to sleep 1 out of 10 times. There must have been a serious regression in the kernel, but no one…

> There must have been a serious regression in the kernel, but no one seems to care

If the feature used to work reliably in older kernels, you could try and bisect the issue. There's a bit of work involved, but it's quite doable.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#210

Post by neuronic »

haspok wrote: post #202
ohazi wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wifi: The advice from five years ago was to select/buy the Intel wifi card. Those are the only ones I've used, and they've all Just Worked. Intel cards are the only option if you're buying a Thinkpad. Sleep and hibernate: Works on every Lenovo I've used. Battery: My most recent laptop gets around 8-9 hours with a new battery on a normal workload, and when it drops to 3 hours, I buy a new battery.

On newer kernels (4.8+) and latest Ubuntu my Thinkpad L390 freezes consistently when I try to suspend. It's gotten a bit better with 5.0.0.31, now suspend works 50% of the cases when I select it manually from the menu, and the laptop is connected to power. Otherwise, 90% freeze. Even my old trusty XPS 13 started not to go to sleep 1 out of 10 times. There must have been a serious regression in the kernel, but no one…

No Linux distro has ever just worked with Sleep and/or WiFi. My last Linux machine (Ubuntu) would never be able to connect to WiFi after sleep mode. Believe me, I tried everything you can think of and find in various StackExchange posts.

When a GRUB update destroyed my dual-boot setup and made my system completely unrecoverable, I ditched Linux and never looked back. Using OpenOffice or LibreOffice was also more akin to self-punishment usually seen in medieval monks.

As a student, all these problems were okay, but nowadays I don't have the time to constantly fight against my own OS to finally figure out that I have to adjust my fan speed rotation coefficient to make the third party WiFi driver work.

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