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U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#231

Post by refurb »

ENOTTY wrote: post #177
pesmhey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama was manufacturing the pivot to Asia. The TTP would have given a lot of power to corporations to combat China. This presents its own set of problems though. Clinton was adamant that her grandchildren would not be speaking Chinese. China has been acknowledged as a threat since 2008 really, by everyone really, just, sometimes people need a very visual and visceral demonstration of action (no matter how less-optima…

My instinct is that an Obama/Clinton administration would not have used a trade blacklist or tariffs.

Probably not. The Obama approach was a much softer touch.

Trump is certainly following up on his threats, but that approach carries some big risks as China can retaliate. It will come down to who blinks first.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#232

Post by lgvln »

killjoywashere wrote: post #213
x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet. But 20 years ago, we weren't having this conversation of China even being seen as a threat. Back in the day, China was simply and exotic communist land that the West exploited for cheap manufacturing. Now it's appearing to be going down the path of militarily deterring the US and competing in the tech field.

Ah... China has been a one-party police state with intercontinental ballistic nuclear missiles for my entire adult life (I'm in my 40s). The only thing I don't understand is why anyone ever thought they weren't a threat.

Their no first use policy perhaps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use#China

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#233

Post by tintinlotus »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #184
buildzr wrote: post #159

Wow, interesting to see Hikvision on this list, I own several of their cameras (and keep them isolated on a separate VLAN), but once you know them, you see them everywhere, they have a huge hold in the video surveillance market. Wonder if their main Chinese competitor, Dahua will pick up their market share in the US or if there's a more local competitor. Huawei's HiSilicon fab makes purpose built ICs for these things…

Isn't dahua a homonym for bullshit in Mandarin? ("Big talk?") I'm surprised a company would choose that name.

It' "Big China" in Chinese.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#234

Post by primordialsoup »

wideasleep1 wrote: post #226
devoply wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US was already shown to be behind in 5g, China is already caught up. Heck they even helped AMD catch up to Intel, and see what sort of major success that was ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD%E2%80%93Chinese_joint_vent... ) . These moves are there to slow it down. But China can make other moves like moving tech knowledge from one company to others and play all sorts of games. Fact is knowledge despite what American…

"US was already shown to be behind in 5g, China is already caught up." So the mainstream media and politicians would have us believe. "Heck they even helped AMD catch up to Intel, and see what sort of major success that was ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD%E2%80%93Chinese_joint_vent... . ) " All I see here is an agreement for AMD to transfer technology to China, for x86 chips destined for chinese-only server marke…

> So the mainstream media and politicians would have us believe.

Do you have sources from non-"mainstream media" that indicate otherwise?

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#235

Post by greatpatton »

wideasleep1 wrote: post #226
devoply wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US was already shown to be behind in 5g, China is already caught up. Heck they even helped AMD catch up to Intel, and see what sort of major success that was ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD%E2%80%93Chinese_joint_vent... ) . These moves are there to slow it down. But China can make other moves like moving tech knowledge from one company to others and play all sorts of games. Fact is knowledge despite what American…

"US was already shown to be behind in 5g, China is already caught up." So the mainstream media and politicians would have us believe. "Heck they even helped AMD catch up to Intel, and see what sort of major success that was ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD%E2%80%93Chinese_joint_vent... . ) " All I see here is an agreement for AMD to transfer technology to China, for x86 chips destined for chinese-only server marke…

I don't know but from a science point of view all our last research are based on paper coming from people at China companies (Alibaba, Tencent), that currently have the edge in our specific domain (machine learning). So yes in domains that mainly require your brain they have caught up if not ahead.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#236

Post by kelnos »

noelsusman wrote: post #175
knowledge102 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The threat from China has been existent and ignored for the past 30 years, the same 30 years that China rose from 3rd world country to the superpower it is today. The change in attitude began with Trump. He was to first president to bring the threat of China to the mainstream political discourse. Since then, China is so objectively a threat to the U.S. economically, militarily and through their direct actions of mani…

Trump was not the first president to bring the threat of China into mainstream political discourse. The most famous moment of the 2012 presidential debates was Obama mocking Romney for naming Russia as our biggest geopolitical adversary rather than China. It has been a constant topic of discussion in Washington for decades. Also, economists nearly universally agree that trade deficits are not remotely the same as "lo…

I think the TPP would have hurt China quite badly. I'm still happy it failed, though: the copyright provisions were awful, and some of the rest of it looked far too much like a slide toward corporatism for my taste.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#237

Post by wideasleep1 »

primordialsoup wrote: post #234
wideasleep1 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"US was already shown to be behind in 5g, China is already caught up." So the mainstream media and politicians would have us believe. "Heck they even helped AMD catch up to Intel, and see what sort of major success that was ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD%E2%80%93Chinese_joint_vent... . ) " All I see here is an agreement for AMD to transfer technology to China, for x86 chips destined for chinese-only server marke…

> So the mainstream media and politicians would have us believe. Do you have sources from non-"mainstream media" that indicate otherwise?

Presently, I'd consider The Verge to be mainstream, but Nilay was on point with his skepticism: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/5g-race-us-leade...

I think one could produce articles supporting either view quite easily, which them becomes a task of separating the agendas of its authors.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#238

Post by [deleted] »

ThinkBackTo wrote: post #227

Given the enormity of their population, one would expect they would have managed to come up with something . Honestly the world would be a far, far better place if the entire Chinese nation were to disappear off the surface of the earth. (Edit: since Chinese trolls have been down voting me, I will reply here to the comment below: clearly by the Chinese nation I was talking about the 1.3 billion in China. There should…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#239

Post by kelnos »

AJ007 wrote: post #141
mattnewton wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure - if a tough on China stance continues to poll well, the next administration will probably follow suit. What absolutely will be in the wilderness is the current approach of tarriffs and bailouts.

The mass internment camps are really the nail in the coffin for China on this one. A lot of the other stuff can be excused away politically, that one can’t.

Given that we're pretty much holding all potential immigrants who cross our southern border in interment camps, I don't think we quite have the moral high ground here.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#240

Post by sdenton4 »

ThinkBackTo wrote: post #227

Given the enormity of their population, one would expect they would have managed to come up with something . Honestly the world would be a far, far better place if the entire Chinese nation were to disappear off the surface of the earth. (Edit: since Chinese trolls have been down voting me, I will reply here to the comment below: clearly by the Chinese nation I was talking about the 1.3 billion in China. There should…

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