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U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#121

Post by aianus »

trhway wrote: post #103

if US wants to put pressure on and punish China, then instead of shooting itself in the foot and everywhere else with tariffs US could have just offered say 10K Green Cards (each coming with $1M resettlement bonus) to the top China researchers&engineers in any industry in China that US would want to cripple as a punishment. At $1M per such a top head it would be a steal for US, and for China it would be a very painfu…

The West should do this with Hong Kong.

There must be many wealthy, educated HKers who are interested in leaving at this point and they would be a huge asset to whichever country accepts them.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#122

Post by mc32 »

ABeeSea wrote: post #84
maximente wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was certainly anti american worker. here are some reasons why: - would have removed US govt general requirement to buy goods produced in america - would have moved jobs to vietnam (lower min. wage than china) instead of back to US, putting downward wage pressure on US manufacturing workers - protect more investments in offshoring than NAFTA does (read: incentivize offshoring) in both manufacturing and services htt…

Those aren’t necessarily bad for American workers. American manufacturing is high skill and involves precision equipment and manufacturing. What would have moved to Vietnam would have been more basic textiles and cnc/molding. Not sure why everyone glorifies basic manufacturing work like it’s the pinnacle of American labor.

Because now those people work even “better” gig jobs or warehouse work for retailers or crappy retail jobs...

But yeah, really good for American workers so we can buy more shitty products which we can throw into the landfill...

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#123

Post by CharlesColeman »

ABeeSea wrote: post #84
maximente wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was certainly anti american worker. here are some reasons why: - would have removed US govt general requirement to buy goods produced in america - would have moved jobs to vietnam (lower min. wage than china) instead of back to US, putting downward wage pressure on US manufacturing workers - protect more investments in offshoring than NAFTA does (read: incentivize offshoring) in both manufacturing and services htt…

Those aren’t necessarily bad for American workers. American manufacturing is high skill and involves precision equipment and manufacturing. What would have moved to Vietnam would have been more basic textiles and cnc/molding. Not sure why everyone glorifies basic manufacturing work like it’s the pinnacle of American labor.

> Not sure why everyone glorifies basic manufacturing work like it’s the pinnacle of American labor.

War requires a lot of basic manufacturing capacity, and geopolitically those aren't good things to lose.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#124

Post by Mountain_Skies »

dillondoyle wrote: post #38
pesmhey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama was manufacturing the pivot to Asia. The TTP would have given a lot of power to corporations to combat China. This presents its own set of problems though. Clinton was adamant that her grandchildren would not be speaking Chinese. China has been acknowledged as a threat since 2008 really, by everyone really, just, sometimes people need a very visual and visceral demonstration of action (no matter how less-optima…

Also in my opinion TPP critically united other Asian nations. I think Trump admins' abandoning of traditional allies/structures like TPP and ceding soft/hard power across the board for the sake of 'America First' is going to have lasting damage and is thus not putting America First in the long term...

Pan-Asian relations is far more complex than just China and not-China. TPP wouldn't change that.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#125

Post by mlyle »

jayrot wrote: post #61
mijamo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every state censors things in some way, he difference is what is censored and how much impact it has obviously. Censorship can also describe private actions such as Twitter/Facebook refusing some ideas, and is that case is vastly vastly present in every country.

> Censorship can also describe private actions such as Twitter/Facebook refusing some ideas, That's only true in the vernacular. True "censorship" is only relevant to government suppression. Individuals or private corporations are under no legal obligation to allow certain ideas/topics. *That is to say, I could perfectly well create some new social network messaging app that specifically does not allow any posts abou…

> Individuals or private corporations are under no legal obligation to allow certain ideas/topics.

(Though it does become problematic as communication channels are concentrated in a few parties hands, which is why, in part, we have things like the common carrier doctrine. In the end, if one party accumulates enough power and uses it in a way that it is oppressive, whether that party is a government, a warlord, or a corporation).

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#126

Post by h0p3 »

throw_xyzyz wrote: post #46
gpm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to what the other person said about broad vs specific, content neutrality. If you punch anyone who talks loudly, that's problematic for other reasons but not censorship per se. If you punch anyone who talks about Tienanmen square, you're censoring them. Pornography would be an example of something the US censors in certain contexts. We aren't banning your billboard because it's a billboard, we are banning…

But if you only make sure anyone who talks about Tienanmen square from ever holding job again that is fine, according to the people who keep saying the freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

If you ever want to openly speak with a mentally ill madman, hit me up. I am not bored by your history. =)

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#128

Post by throwawy4trueth »

dade_ wrote: post #83

[flagged]

No government has the right to fabricate (maybe not accurate but they also believe that's true) some thing call genocide then use the fabrication to fool the world to adjust its action. The WMD was known to be a lie only hindsight.

Western countires like to act as if they are warriors saving the world by creating evils. The people believe lies again and again because that match their desire for hate.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#129

Post by chrisjc »

knowledge102 wrote: post #88
saltking112 wrote: post #3

One thing that I really like about the Trump administration is that finally the WH has decided to act against the systemic threat posed by China. Can someone who is well versed in politics shed some light on if this is a trump specific phenonemon or had there been a sea change and the dems are now on board too ?

The threat from China has been existent and ignored for the past 30 years, the same 30 years that China rose from 3rd world country to the superpower it is today. The change in attitude began with Trump. He was to first president to bring the threat of China to the mainstream political discourse. Since then, China is so objectively a threat to the U.S. economically, militarily and through their direct actions of mani…

> bipartisian support was easy to flourish once someone actually took an anti-china stance

Apart from Yang I haven't heard (partially because I haven't sought it out) any other democratic candidate voice any opinion on this matter. I really fear that if Trump doesn't have a second term, any Democrat will cut bait, sending a very dangerous message to the CCP.

edit: Actually, not sure I've heard Yang's stance on this either, just his opinion about the whole China/NBA matter.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#130

Post by dragontamer »

sremani wrote: post #30
learc83 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama's response to contain China was the TPP. It could have been more (or less--no way to know) effective than Trump's, Obama just didn't tweet about it.

TPP was bad idea, it was so anti-worker I am surprised that a Democrat is supporting it. I do not have to say about the settlement system of TPP. It was stupid, literally having parallel legal system outside of all the current legal system. TPP died for good reasons because it for technocrats by technocrats.

And under Trump, the steel tariffs have basically forced Ford and GM to stop making sedans in the USA and instead make them in Mexico. Ford Focus: moved to China (Ironically). Ford Fusion: Cancelled. GM Volt: Cancelled. Harvey Davidson: moving to Europe.

Things aren't exactly simple, and I am not convinced that the tariffs + tax cuts have helped the American worker at all. US Manufacturing is down for two months in a row now, and I don't see it getting any better any time soon.

We're at a point where the Trump-defenders need to start explaining exactly what these tariffs are supposed to do and why they think the tariffs are helping. The tariffs have been in effect for well over a year, do you have any evidence that they're helping yet?

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Frankly, I don't care how much we hurt, or help, China. It was supposed to be "American First". So lets talk about America and whether or not these policies help Americans.

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