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U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

reuters.com

81–90 of 361 posts

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#81
post #47
post #37

South Park episode and NBA fiasco made it possible for the public to be grateful for the move. Or maybe it was planned to happen before another round of negotiations and the timing is a... coincidence? Hard to believe in these anymore.

I do not think this is a coincidence that tension between the US and China raises every time Trump has political issues, just like Russia suddenly finds ennemies when Putin faces discontent, or that Turkey fights kurds 10 times stronger when Erdogan feels threatened. Pointing an ennemy is a great way to get away with many things, and works very well with all kinds of publics.

Hey, it worked for Hitler!

Creating an enemy is a classic technique for distracting the internal population.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#82
post #81
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think this is a coincidence that tension between the US and China raises every time Trump has political issues, just like Russia suddenly finds ennemies when Putin faces discontent, or that Turkey fights kurds 10 times stronger when Erdogan feels threatened. Pointing an ennemy is a great way to get away with many things, and works very well with all kinds of publics.

Hey, it worked for Hitler! Creating an enemy is a classic technique for distracting the internal population.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#84
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point out some of the ways it was anti-worker? Genuine question btw

it was certainly anti american worker. here are some reasons why: - would have removed US govt general requirement to buy goods produced in america - would have moved jobs to vietnam (lower min. wage than china) instead of back to US, putting downward wage pressure on US manufacturing workers - protect more investments in offshoring than NAFTA does (read: incentivize offshoring) in both manufacturing and services htt…

Those aren’t necessarily bad for American workers. American manufacturing is high skill and involves precision equipment and manufacturing. What would have moved to Vietnam would have been more basic textiles and cnc/molding. Not sure why everyone glorifies basic manufacturing work like it’s the pinnacle of American labor.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#85
Has this kind of strategy ever worked, in trade negotiations? It seems about as likely to be effective as a bombing campaign: It'll reduce the other side's effectiveness, but from a negotiation perspective it'll only cause them to dig in harder.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#86
post #79
post #2

The art of caption… > [..] some of China’s top artificial intelligence startups, punishing Beijing for its treatment of Muslim minorities [..] > The decision, which drew a sharp rebuke from Beijing, targets 20 Chinese public security bureaus and eight companies including video surveillance firm Hikvision, as well as leaders in facial recognition technology SenseTime Group Ltd and Megvii Technology Ltd. So Chinese pal…

I'm confused what point you're making, here? Not trying to be rude, I'm just unsure of your position. Are you implying this wasn't 'punishment' over China's treatment of Muslims? Or something else? Or am I misreading completely?

They likely mean since the list of blacklisted startups heavily (?) features surveillance companies, this whole situation is no big loss to anyone (presumbaly, the regular westerners as well as Chinese citizenry) as surveillance = absence of privacy = Orwellian = no bueno.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#87
post #86
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused what point you're making, here? Not trying to be rude, I'm just unsure of your position. Are you implying this wasn't 'punishment' over China's treatment of Muslims? Or something else? Or am I misreading completely?

They likely mean since the list of blacklisted startups heavily (?) features surveillance companies, this whole situation is no big loss to anyone (presumbaly, the regular westerners as well as Chinese citizenry) as surveillance = absence of privacy = Orwellian = no bueno.

Ahh, now I understand. That's the more sensible interpretation. Thanks.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#88

One thing that I really like about the Trump administration is that finally the WH has decided to act against the systemic threat posed by China. Can someone who is well versed in politics shed some light on if this is a trump specific phenonemon or had there been a sea change and the dems are now on board too ?

The threat from China has been existent and ignored for the past 30 years, the same 30 years that China rose from 3rd world country to the superpower it is today.

The change in attitude began with Trump. He was to first president to bring the threat of China to the mainstream political discourse. Since then, China is so objectively a threat to the U.S. economically, militarily and through their direct actions of manipulating U.S. businesses, countering our influence internationally, that bipartisian support was easy to flourish once someone actually took an anti-china stance.

The power of the Chinese market, low wage labor, sophisticated and concentrated foreign policy manipulation, and their stated strategy of "hiding their strength and biding their time" (until Xi), has worked to make the U.S. turn a blind eye. The problem of China has been present to any competent political scientist for a while now. But the amount of money incentives and ignorance on the part of U.S. business and political leaders made it so they would in essence be bribed to ignore the issue.

Obama did a pivot to asia, with the TTP at its helm, but in reality after 8 years of presidency and negotatitions, the results were nothing unfortunately. TTP is debatable as a solution. Even with the TTP, the U.S. has been losing 300 billion a year to China in trade. Granted this results in cheaper products for us, but 300 billion dollar trade surplus for China is what funded the communist dictatorship growing military spending, leading to a military that can be as powerful as the U.S.'s one day. 300 billion each year is more profit that what all the U.S's top tech companies make each year combined. The rise of China is not a miricale, like Japan's, Koreas, and other early east asian miricales, it was bought by America's consumers and political inaction.

Some theory, although depressing admittely: There is no government for governments, so each country lives in anarchy. Therefore nothing is off limits to get what you need to survive, including war. Countries go to war and act in self interest because, if they are not strong, whoever is will likely use their power to exploit the other country.

A balance of power brings stability. If there is 1 superpower, the world becomes globalized ( US after fall of soviet union). No world wars, because anyone who fights the dominant superpower will lose. This is called unipolar, one of the most stable and peaceful states for major powers.

Now when another power comes to rise, it is like a startup rising to crush the industry monopoly. Except, instead of having to battle it out economically, they can litteraly kill each other (or on the scale of countries, war).

The incentives for major war skyrocket

Britian was was the major power, they controlled 3/4ths of the world through their colonies and their unstoppable navy. Then industrial revolution and trains led to the rise of land powers, and the rise of Germany's economy. The rising powers, the disruption the balance of power eventually led to the world wars.

After that was U.S vs Soviet Union. The two sole superpowers after WW2 were on the brink of the nuclear war. for about 50 years.

The soviet union collapsed because communism with corruption was unable to keep up with captialism.

Now the U.S once the sole superpower, faces the rise of China. The chances of World War 3 are higher than ever, although they have calmed down from the high tensions of year or 2 ago.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I think it is important that we finally realize the immense threat that China is. Not just economically, but for our safety. Their goal is to be the top superpower, and to make the U.S. and anyone else bend to their will, as is every countries goal

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard Double standard is pretty annoying too. Please don't use it as well.

I find it both funny and sad that you're supporting whataboutism via a claim of double standard when that is exactly why whataboutism is a logical fallacy. Double standard has absolutely nothing to do with the merit of an argument or action. A thing can be both a double standard and an ethically sound action at the same time.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#90
post #6

Legitimate question: at what point does censorship become something more benign such as blacklist or sanctions? If we do it?

Censor: Highly targeted and specific, usually along the lines of communication. Like Xi and Winnie the Pooh. The US doesn't censor(?) Blacklist: Broader, usually applied to products and companies. China blacklisted Facebook. The US blacklisted Huawei.

People really believed the Winnie the Pooh story? I thought that’s just a joke
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