Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

blog.emojipedia.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 730 posts

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#251

Post by AmericanChopper »

tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

If you apply the idea that in order to work for a company that you must ethically agree with every single one of its decisions and associations consistently, you’ll end up with absolutely nowhere to work. This comment doesn’t represent a principled stance, only a case of moral outrage (and over an emoji). If you actually behaved like this, you’d get fired, and somebody else would simply ship this simple change (that really doesn’t hurt anybody anyway) without any further drama.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#252

Post by behnamoh »

root_axis wrote: post #223
Macuyiko wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. We shouldn't blame the engineer but the managers asking for this in the first place and knowing they can get away with any sort of "small pressures" they put on their employees.

We should still blame the engineer, but they shouldn't shoulder the majority of the blame.

Maybe if all engineers quit with the first immoral request by the management, it would actually pave way for more morally ignorant engineers to replace them. We only see what has happened, not what has not happened. What if the iOS engineers do in fact have moral values and have declined some of the management's more immoral requests many times, but this particular request seemed the lesser of two devils? Maybe those engineers don't quit exactly because they want to hinder such actions by the management.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#253

Post by thereare5lights »

georgeburdell wrote: post #196
tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

Apple is based in Cupertino, which is at least half Chinese, and is a heavily staffed with Chinese overall. You assume they have Western political sensibilities. Edit: latest demographic data from Wiki, from 2010, says 63% Asian and 26% Chinese

Ah that yellow peril coming out of the woodwork again.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#254

Post by natch »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #148
zepto wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing an emoji from a keyboard is as scary as hacking all of someone’s personal data?

> Removing an emoji from a keyboard is as scary as hacking all of someone’s personal data? Yes. While seemly small, removing the emoji is an instance of political censorship.

I doubt Apple leadership is unbothered by the reality of censorship that some countries impose. Unfortunately China fully embraces censorship though. There is a lot of good done by giving another billion and a half people access to a non-privacy-invading mobile OS so balancing that against bowing to censorship is a tough decision.

If you think you disagree, please discuss your reasons.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#255

Post by saagarjha »

filoleg wrote: post #170
baybal2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The U.S. and others have sold their soul to the devil for $299 flat screen tvs. I believe it's more appropriate to say that they sold their souls at 230 dollars per share.

> they sold their souls at 230 dollars per share I realize you are referencing something specific, but I wanted to make sure I got it correctly. Current TSLA share price?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=AAPL

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#256

Post by thesausageking »

The anger towards Apple in this thread is misdirected. The US government's official stance recognizes "that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China" and that "the United States does not support Taiwan independence"

From: https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/

Why should Apple be expected to take a political stance at odds with the official Chinese and US government policies?

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#257

Post by supernova87a »

I feel the need to inject some perspective here.

Every country imposes requirements on manufacturers of devices or service providers that some person(s) might object to.

If you choose to do business in that country, you play ball, or you leave. How you pick which ones that are tolerable enough to live with is the question -- and don't imagine that it's moral principles that define it. It's how much a company wants to stomach the loss of that business.

Saudi Arabia (and many others) prevent the installation of Whats App, etc. on phones activated there.

Israel (and the US by the way) censor imagery of certain places on the maps shown in those countries.

Japan for chrissake even forces devices to emit a camera shutter sound when a picture is taken.

And you're singling out China for censoring the Taiwan flag emoji?

How about those other cases? Where does it start / end? Are you saying engineers should quit over every one of these infringements?

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#258

Post by thereare5lights »

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #85
blotter_paper wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if the US hadn't sold their soul already? :/ I'm not trying to downplay the horrors of China, but let's not act like the US had clean hands before importing bulk electronics.

I'm not sure the average American benefited as directly to the atrocites of the past. The U.S. simply cannot change course without a serious alteration of the the ethos of the country.

> I'm not sure the average American benefited as directly to the atrocites of the past.

This is a joke right?

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#259

Post by tanilama »

georgeburdell wrote: post #196
tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

Apple is based in Cupertino, which is at least half Chinese, and is a heavily staffed with Chinese overall. You assume they have Western political sensibilities. Edit: latest demographic data from Wiki, from 2010, says 63% Asian and 26% Chinese

Oh, it is because they are 'Chinese' by look so they can't possibly be trusted with precious western political sensibilities.

Good takeaway you had.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#260

Post by r00fus »

laughinghan wrote: post #245
tibbon wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure; but literally any day Tim Cook can say, "Ok China, I no longer play your game. Enjoy having no support or economic progress from us - bye". My point wasn't a specific developer (as you point out, they might have been in China themselves and unable to do otherwise), but that anyone in the chain who is "safe" and in a position of power and privilege to not-play China's game, I find morally dubious. Engineers in t…

You genuinely believe Tim Cook has more leverage than China? By what fraction do you think Apple's profits would drop if it had to rebuild all of its factories outside of China? By what fraction do you think China's GDP or tax revenue would drop if it kicked Apple out of China? Even if that situation were reversed, Tim Cook answers to shareholders via a board of directors. He's legally obligated to maximize sharehold…

> He's legally obligated to maximize shareholder value.

Is this actually true? Or just a "institutional wisdom"?

Post reply on HN