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Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

blog.emojipedia.org

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Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#221

Post by rolltiide »

Analemma_ wrote: post #49
rolltiide wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using the US as an example: Americans defer their understanding of a region based on people with tangential relationships to the region. So in America, people's understanding of Taiwan is represented only by people from Taiwan that left. Generations ago. Same goes for "China", in whatever state it was at the time the Asian-American's family left. This is from people that actively try to avoid being insensitive. But i…

I visit Taiwan every couple years, and when I go, I make a note to ask people I meet what they think about reuniting with China. Every single time, the answer has been not just no, but an angry hell no.

yes, but this thread isn't just about Taiwan. Its about HK's perspective of Taiwan at a certain point in time and how it is easy to miss their perspective and just assume all satellite's of mainland China have the same view of what the composition of China would be. When its not true.

In the same vein, many people in the US and abroad would find Taiwan's view of Tibet to be surprisingly uncollaborative over different points in recent history.

Many people are so focused on Greater-China satellite victim complexes such that many assume they all see each other the same way when thats not the case at all.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#222

Post by Zenst »

forkerenok wrote: post #199
Macuyiko wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. We shouldn't blame the engineer but the managers asking for this in the first place and knowing they can get away with any sort of "small pressures" they put on their employees.

Perhaps that manager had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported... But seriously, moral is the thing that applies not only when it's convenient. Disclaimer: I have no moral right to preach this.

Maybe that the engineer or the manager (or both) are not that old and still paying of their student loans and other debt babies.

Though I'd go with the ability to add or remove emojis or restrict them was a facility engineered for more moral motives and was a point and click level of solution that those with access could do such a change with ease.

Or

It was upper management...

Either way - I do not expect an announcement from Apple saying "Zach in engineering did it, his bad, sorry for that", or indeed anything at all as that would fuel this and unless it is still trending as an issue after a few weeks, then they might. But in general, such things PR wise, blow over and Apple like most have found that not fueling it with any response unless it is exactly what the populus want to hear, it is best to say nothing. At least, that is how many such comparable matters play out with such large corporations throughout history, though they have improved.

EDIT[ s/hold/old/ ]

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#223

Post by root_axis »

Macuyiko wrote: post #190
organsnyder wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that engineer had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported... I'd probably have made the same decision as you (I'm fortunate to have a safety net), but many people don't have that luxury.

I agree. We shouldn't blame the engineer but the managers asking for this in the first place and knowing they can get away with any sort of "small pressures" they put on their employees.

We should still blame the engineer, but they shouldn't shoulder the majority of the blame.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#224

Post by Simulacra »

tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

I don’t think it’s the engineers fault. Apple is in business to make money, and China represents a huge chunk of money. The company seems to prioritize money over human rights in situations like these. Likely they had an engineer in China do it.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#225

Post by datagram »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #156
dheera wrote: post #123

It's worth noting that the ROC flag (== Taiwan flag) was the flag flown all over the mainland before 1949. It's a part of mainland history as well. I'm not supporting any political stance here, but just saying that it's a bit weird to ban a symbol that was part of the mainland's history as well, and on its own, carries more historical significance than just Taiwan independence.

Indeed, this flag has little, if anything, to do with "Taiwan independence". But according to the PRC the ROC no longer exists (that's what they mean by "Taiwan is part of China" and I'm guessing that they see the flag used by people opposing the (PRC) government, so the standard procedure is to ban it. I'm curious, though, if this comes from a specific demand or if, for example Apple has moved to releasing the same…

The article mentions that you can still view and copy/paste the Taiwan emoji in Honk Kong, whereas you can't on the mainland.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#226

Post by Zenst »

colechristensen wrote: post #200
organsnyder wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that engineer had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported... I'd probably have made the same decision as you (I'm fortunate to have a safety net), but many people don't have that luxury.

With the amount that engineers get paid in the bay area it's ridiculous that having a safety net isn't trivially easy. The real estate situation here (and everywhere) is ridiculous - it isn't right that the price of housing seems everywhere to be a little bit too much for anybody to afford.

Debt, student debt, mortgage debt, cost of living in such a high paying area do tend to be much more expensive - fiscal relativity if you like.

So not as clear cut that they can all just pack up and go walkabout.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#228

Post by L_Rahman »

tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

There is way for engineers to exercise their power to prevent things like this from happening, but it can only happen through collective action.

Getting fired for not acceding to a demand like this isn't the result of an individual manager making a decision but the entire apparatus of corporate governance coming to bear on the person. It can be only be meaningfully resisted and fought with an equally organized group of engineers.

If you're on Hacker News, and our industry's willingness to compromise on fundamental values to maintain access to "the world's largest market" upsets you -

Join or start a union.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#229

Post by fauigerzigerk »

alkonaut wrote: post #23

Stop sucking up to dictatorships. If they don't want to do business with you because your map or flags or search engine shows something they don't like - leave. Don't censor your search engine or modify your maps to fit their worldview.

In my opinion, this is a political issue. It should be handled on a political level similar to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act that sets minimum standards for how corporations are allowed to act in foreign countries.

For-profit corporations are systemically unfit to solve this problem on their own. We should stop wishing for them to be something they cannot consistently be.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#230

Post by dpkonofa »

tibbon wrote: post #218
mh8h wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to add another angle. Apple, as well as other tech companies, have many employees in China, and a lot of non-Chinese employees that travel to China regularly. Many of these changes are demanded by the PRC government and not abiding by those might risk imprisonment for those employees. Disclaimer: I work for Apple, but I don't work on iOS.

Sure; but literally any day Tim Cook can say, "Ok China, I no longer play your game. Enjoy having no support or economic progress from us - bye". My point wasn't a specific developer (as you point out, they might have been in China themselves and unable to do otherwise), but that anyone in the chain who is "safe" and in a position of power and privilege to not-play China's game, I find morally dubious. Engineers in t…

>Enjoy having no support or economic progress from us - bye".

This would have to be done on a federal level. Just because Apple stopped doing this doesn't mean China would be any worse off. Google, Amazon, and every other tech company would still get in line to do whatever it takes to get that sweet, sweet money.

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