Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#191

Post by zdragnar » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

> What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this?

What makes you think that it was an engineer in the US who made the change? Apple's got employees all over the world, including in China. If anything, my first guess was the update was made from a team based in shanghai or shenzhen, since the emoji is already banned there.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#192

Post by umvi » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

headsupftw wrote: post #91

degenerate wrote: post #6

The degree that China goes to censor things reminds me of kindergarten. Pull the shades down, and kids won't want to go outside? Is it simply a reminder to their people of who's in charge, at this level of pettiness?

The United States doesn't officially recognize Taiwan as a country. Taiwan is not a member of the United Nations. Apple's revenue in Taiwan is peanuts compared to that of mainland China. The list goes on.

Trump enraged China when he tweeted that he talked to "the President of Taiwan" though, so clearly most people in the US think of Taiwan as being separate from China

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#193

Post by freehunter » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

lonelappde wrote: post #11

mey wrote: post #2

It's easy to forget the freedom I enjoy and expect in the United States. Again brings to light the question, how much do you actually own your device? Since I assume there is no recourse for these users on a censorship level, is there such a thing as a class action lawsuit for removing a feature in Hong Kong?

This is the freedom we give up when we choose proprietary systems. China has its problems with authoritarian government, which is enforced at the barrel of a gun. But we (the worldwide society) gave up our communications freedom to Apple and others willingly, for convenience.

>But we gave up our communications freedom

Nonsense. The existence of proprietary platforms in no way reduces the possibility of free and open platforms. Using iMessage or Facebook Messenger or any other closed communication platform is a choice you can opt out of right now.

Sometimes I wonder if this all-too-common "the open Internet is dead" defeatism isn't some kind of false flag to make people think the open Internet is actually dead so they don't try to leave their walled garden. That is absolutely not the case and people need to stop saying it.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#194

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#195

Post by __m » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #19

degenerate wrote: post #6

The degree that China goes to censor things reminds me of kindergarten. Pull the shades down, and kids won't want to go outside? Is it simply a reminder to their people of who's in charge, at this level of pettiness?

I think it is petty. At the same time it's a good gauge for them to figure out what else they can do. Start with "hey man don't show that one pic" and the company figures "it's one pic, whatever we're not really compromising our values". A few more steps and then it seems less dramatic when it comes to "give us that information on that one user"... and so on. Personally I would expect an external social credit score…

Well if the NSA gets access why not opening up to other governments?

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#196

Post by georgeburdell » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

Apple is based in Cupertino, which is at least half Chinese, and is a heavily staffed with Chinese overall. You assume they have Western political sensibilities.

Edit: latest demographic data from Wiki, from 2010, says 63% Asian and 26% Chinese

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#197

Post by ahelwer » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

Employer-dependent healthcare and visa status are powerful tools of control. Let's also not forget sky-high housing costs, ensuring an astronomical savings burn rate when unemployed.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#198

Post by ditry1232 » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #175

dirtyid wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multinational companies conforming to local laws and customs isn't scary, it's status quo. (Most) Companies sell products and services not ideology. Sometimes prexisting ideology comes preloaded in because regionalization and cultural competence cost extra. Mostly that's an economic bug that people have conflated as a soft power feature because non-western markets were too small to advocate for themselves. It's compl…

> Multinational companies conforming to local laws and customs isn't scary, it's status quo. You are missing my point. The fact that it is status quo is the scary part. I do not accept that companies should be let off the hook for empowering and enriching oppressive reigns because of "local laws and customs". I do accept that companies should be let off the hook for destroying environments and ecosystems because of l…

It's also neither local laws or customs to hide the Taiwanese flag as OP claims.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#199

Post by forkerenok » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

Macuyiko wrote: post #190

organsnyder wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that engineer had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported... I'd probably have made the same decision as you (I'm fortunate to have a safety net), but many people don't have that luxury.

I agree. We shouldn't blame the engineer but the managers asking for this in the first place and knowing they can get away with any sort of "small pressures" they put on their employees.

Perhaps that manager had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported...

But seriously, moral is the thing that applies not only when it's convenient.

Disclaimer: I have no moral right to preach this.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#200

Post by colechristensen » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

organsnyder wrote: post #185

tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

Perhaps that engineer had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported... I'd probably have made the same decision as you (I'm fortunate to have a safety net), but many people don't have that luxury.

With the amount that engineers get paid in the bay area it's ridiculous that having a safety net isn't trivially easy. The real estate situation here (and everywhere) is ridiculous - it isn't right that the price of housing seems everywhere to be a little bit too much for anybody to afford.