Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#121

Post by blub » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 12:07 PM UTC

markdown wrote: post #25

craigsmansion wrote: post #15

Tesla also has a final assembly plant in the Netherlands[1], nominally making the brand "native" (like Volvo before them). That usually results in better brand recognition and higher sales as well. I recently saw a post on social media where someone couldn't go to the dentist because the car was updating software. From the discussion I understand there is a "grace period" of 2 weeks before automatic updates, and that…

> I recently saw a post on social media where someone couldn't go to the dentist because the car was updating software. Nice. I wish the only cost of getting a free upgrade to my vehicle was that I'd have to take a taxi every now and then.

That's not the only cost. We'll start seeing the real cost when these internet-connected and internet-updateable vehicles inevitably get hacked.

It's lunacy to do OTA updates for cars, but here we are. And other manufacturers are following.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#122

Post by AnonymousPlanet » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 12:23 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #88

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is a very densely populated country (go take a look at map). Even a relatively minor accident at a nuclear facility would trigger a huge evacuation (I've seen the disaster control plans), causing major economic harm. Germany also does not have any viable means to store nuclear waste responsibly. Currently, nuclear does not look like the sane option for Germany.

How is France any different?

France is much less densely populated. Like I said, look at a map. Find a place in Germany where you can put a nuclear plant so that closing off an area with a radius of 30km doesn't affect major economical centers. Do the same with France and you will see the difference. Maybe you could litter the state of Brandenburg with nuclear plants. But then again, surrounding your capital would be a bad idea.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#123

Post by jacquesm » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 12:40 PM UTC

rumanator wrote: post #36

avocado4 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change is primarily hitting the poorest of the world.

The Netherlands is famous for being below sea level. I'm sure they have a dog in the race regarding rising sea levels.

NL is like a machine in the sense that keeping the water out requires constant work and energy. Water is pumped out at a stupendous rate, if not for that the country would revert to being mostly a large lake in a decade or two.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#124

Post by melling » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 12:46 PM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #22

tcmb wrote: post #18

I live in an apartment complex in Berlin. We have a parking garage that belongs to the complex. Unfortunately the housing company does not allow installation of a wallbox in the garage, even if I paid for it myself. The housing company is owned by the municipality. Large-scale adoption of electric cars is unrealistic when the majority of people have nowhere to charge it.

Anecdotally, around 40% of the electricity in Germany was generated from coal in 2018, but in january 2019, a group of federal and state leaders as well as industry representatives, environmentalists, and scientists made an agreement to close all 84 coal plants in the country by 2038.[1] Just as in many other parts of the world, expanding electrical consumption through electric vehicles does not make sense if we also…

In the short term, it does absolutely make sense to use electric vehicles.

The critical goal is to further develop electric cars so they become the obvious choice for consumers.

As we go from a few million EVs to tens of millions, it is of course important to move towards cleaner electricity.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#125

Post by martijn9612 » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 12:48 PM UTC

goodcanadian wrote: post #119

martijn9612 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably too late, the ordering date to get a model 3 for this year has (almost) passed. They're saying that the order has to be confirmed before today 22:00 (oct 6), otherwise Tesla cannot guarantee the 2019 delivery date. https://www.mistergreen.nl/tesla-model-3-lease

I'm ignorant of Dutch law, so I may be off base, but I find taxes usually apply as of the date of the contract, not the date of the delivery. So, if you have a firm order, you are probably fine.

I'm pretty sure that here in The Netherlands it applies to the date the vehicle receives a license plate.

The only think to remark is that ?two? years ago the same situation occurred with the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, thousands were ordered and the end of the year was approaching. A couple of people worked around the clock to register them all before the 1st of January to ensure the tax benefits (At least that is what I heard at that time).

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#126

Post by AnonymousPlanet » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 12:53 PM UTC

fjfaase wrote: post #106

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internal combustion engines pollute the air where I'm living . Moving pollution away from residential areas is a worthwhile task in itself. That makes a lot of sense to me. I live in a densely populated country. Even a relatively minor accident at a nuclear facility would trigger a huge evacuation (I've seen the disaster control plans), causing major economic harm. Also my country does not have any viable means to st…

An electrical car produces almost as much fine dust particles as an internal combustion engine. Thus in that respect they are as poluting. The CO2 and NOx combustion engines produces are not that dangerous to our health. Soot, mainly produced by heavy diesel engines, is also a dangerous form of polution, but most trucks should have filters for those by now.

> An electrical car produces almost as much fine dust particles as an internal combustion engine.

This is utter nonsense. Electric vehicles have no direct emissions, including no direct emissions of fine dust. You are confusing this with emissions during production. My point is about emissions at the location of a car's use.

> The CO2 and NOx combustion engines produces are not that dangerous to our health.

If this was true, there would have been no diesel scandal at all. However, car exhaust is indeed very dangerous to your health, especially if you live next to heavy traffic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx#Health_and_environment_eff...

> Soot, mainly produced by heavy diesel engines, is also a dangerous form of polution, but most trucks should have filters for those by now.

They should, but reality is different

- https://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/abgasskandal-manipuliert...

- https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2017/wp29/WP.2...

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#127

Post by _ph_ » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

reitzensteinm wrote: post #102

_ph_ wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all the downvoters: powered by the average German grid, a Tesla emits about 75g CO2/100km. Please show me any combustion engined vehicle that comes even close to those numbers. Of course the "emissions" of the electric cars can only get better from there.

When you add load to a grid that's in the process of decarbonizing, you need to look at the marginal impact. Taking the average energy mix is bad math, because you're delaying the shutdown of the dirtiest sources. This can get more complicated if you have excess renewable energy generation at times, where the use is essentially free. Not to mention demand dispatch to smooth intermittent renewables. I'm a big EV fan,…

The mix is the right math. After all, you cannot say, which electric device uses which power source. Or suddenly it might be your TV running on pure coal energy - this does not make much sense. The best approximation is, that you apply the average energy mix. Which might be even too pessimistic, as not only a lot of people do power their electric cars with their own solar energy but also it is easy to charge your electric cars especially in those times where the grid is on a relatively low carbon content and even surplus energy needs to be exported.

Of course, there are plenty of better alternatives to cars in many places, especially city centers. But as long as there is a genuine need for cars, they better be electric than combustion engined.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#128

Post by zaroth » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:16 PM UTC

craigsmansion wrote: post #15

Tesla also has a final assembly plant in the Netherlands[1], nominally making the brand "native" (like Volvo before them). That usually results in better brand recognition and higher sales as well. I recently saw a post on social media where someone couldn't go to the dentist because the car was updating software. From the discussion I understand there is a "grace period" of 2 weeks before automatic updates, and that…

Once a software update is available for your car, the car will automatically download it when you are connected via WiFi.

Once the update it downloaded, it will notify you on the in car display and on your phone an update is ready to install.

You can then either schedule a time when it should be installed in the future (e.g. middle of the night), click to start the install immediately, or ignore the update for as long as you want.

When you click to install, it begins a 2:00 minute countdown timer which allows you to cancel before the install starts. It says very clearly how long the update will take and that it can’t be canceled while it’s installing. You cannot drive the car while the update is running.

If someone missed their dentist appointment because of a software update, it’s because they intentionally ran the update just before needing to use the car.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#129

Post by marvin » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:22 PM UTC

Faark wrote: post #108

ralusek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't running an internal combustion engine in a car still substantially less efficient than the power plant necessary to charge it, regardless of the fuel?

Not just that, ICE cars emit their shitty exhaust right where lots of people live. Things are generally more complex than breaking it down to a single CO2 number make it appear, and I'm a bit uneasy that recent trend.

It's the ICE vehicle industry that's spreading this narrative. It's only a result of lobbying.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#130

Post by zaroth » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

TicklishTiger wrote: post #7

The one thing I really can not get over with Tesla is the dashboard. That giant screen that looks so misplaced. Cars always used to be the pinnacle of thought out design. And Tesla is supposed to be catering the more stylish crowd I think. I wonder how they decided to place a standard screen to the right of the driver. It will be interesting to see if other car manufacturers will adopt this design decision. Then it w…

I find the Tesla Model 3 aesthetically beautiful, and other cars rather grotesque in comparison. It’s extremely forward thinking and intelligent design, allowing for the user experience to constantly improve and be enhanced with the regular software updates to come down.

There are now dozens of features in my car which didn’t even exist when I bought it. UI refinements actually improve my driving experience one month to the next. This is a level of service which is impossible to provide with a hard-wired UI.

It’s also crucially important to acknowledge that all the main driving interfaces are tactile buttons immediately within reach. Steering, blinkers, wipers, high beams, gear select, AutoPilot, cruise speed, volume, track selection, follow distance, windows, and hazard lights are all perfectly positioned physical controls.

There is only a single control which might require a time sensitive activation which is on the screen, and that is the defog.

Tesla also does a remarkable job automating away the need for many tasks which in other cars might have you reaching for a knob or switch of some kind.