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Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

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Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#81

Post by _ph_ »

mmsimanga wrote: post #23
craigsmansion wrote: post #15

Tesla also has a final assembly plant in the Netherlands[1], nominally making the brand "native" (like Volvo before them). That usually results in better brand recognition and higher sales as well. I recently saw a post on social media where someone couldn't go to the dentist because the car was updating software. From the discussion I understand there is a "grace period" of 2 weeks before automatic updates, and that…

As an African I really want an electric car that just has a speedometer, airbags, range meter and nothing else. I can do without air condition, outside temperature sensor ... We already struggling to fix the modern petrol and diesel cars full of electronics.

Fixing older cars with electronic problems is a nightmare everywhere. It is pretty much depending on getting the original spares which manufacturers might just stop providing at some time (and sometimes they get caught by some chip no longer being available).

On the other side, considering how many videos I see on youTube about people using batteries and electric motors from salvaged Teslas to build their own electric cars/conversions to electric, the technology seems to be quite hackable. In the end, an electric motor is easy to control and a battery is just a battery. So even a homegrown controller should be quite feasible, compared to managing ignition on a modern combustion engine.

I think the electric cars are rather going to trigger a wave of new small car companies emerging, as most of the required technology is quite commonplace. Which also should make maintenance and repair easier.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#82

Post by timwaagh »

buboard wrote: post #20
Yuval_Halevi wrote: post #10

As someone who lived in Amsterdam for one year (I'm originally from Israel) I was extremely impressed by how the government create a solid infrastructure for electric car owners to charge their car batteries.

That sounds a bit like they are solving rich people's problems

well they are solving poor people's problems as well. if everyone is driving an ev i don't need to bike through the smog on misty rainy days. besides, this car is affordable for a large number of people as the numbers show.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#83

Post by ZeroGravitas »

hnarn wrote: post #22
tcmb wrote: post #18

I live in an apartment complex in Berlin. We have a parking garage that belongs to the complex. Unfortunately the housing company does not allow installation of a wallbox in the garage, even if I paid for it myself. The housing company is owned by the municipality. Large-scale adoption of electric cars is unrealistic when the majority of people have nowhere to charge it.

Anecdotally, around 40% of the electricity in Germany was generated from coal in 2018, but in january 2019, a group of federal and state leaders as well as industry representatives, environmentalists, and scientists made an agreement to close all 84 coal plants in the country by 2038.[1] Just as in many other parts of the world, expanding electrical consumption through electric vehicles does not make sense if we also…

It actually does make sense to burn coal (or oil) in power stations to power electric vehicles.

You'd have to have a very dirty grid and keep it dirty for decades for it to be a bad idea, and in that case you have bigger problems and it's not the EVs at fault.

https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles

> Even when the electricity comes from the dirtiest coal-dominated grid, electric vehicles (EVs) still produce less global warming pollution than their conventional counterparts, and with fewer tailpipe emissions (or none at all).

That quote is based on US grids but the general point holds worldwide.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#84

Post by AnonymousPlanet »

omnimus wrote: post #67
AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is a very densely populated country (go take a look at map). Even a relatively minor accident at a nuclear facility would trigger a huge evacuation (I've seen the disaster control plans), causing major economic harm. Germany also does not have any viable means to store nuclear waste responsibly. Currently, nuclear does not look like the sane option for Germany.

They suddenly in few years closed all nuclear which imcreased all need for coal. Its dirty decision 2038 is not enough. If they closed all coal and wait with nuclear to 2038 that would make sense. Coal barons need to sell that stuff quicky before it looses value. I am sure they will somehow artificilially increase cost of coal energy in upcoming years.

The government of Gerhard Schröder set nuclear to be phased out. That was about 20 years ago. "Suddenly" isn't the word that should be used here.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#85

Post by buboard »

_ph_ wrote: post #40
buboard wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a bit like they are solving rich people's problems

Of all countries, the Netherlands would have an especially large incentive to combat climate change, as large parts are already below the sea level. Also pollution and noise due to car usage, are everyones problems. The government isn't giving electric cars away, but providing infrastructure seems like a good idea to me, as this is more difficult to provide as an individual. Also, electric cars are not limited to "th…

It is absolutely great to reduce car usage. Amsterdam is already making it very hard to own a car. But encouraging EVs actually increases car usage, EV or not. There s the question of industry standards, whether the technologies of today are final, and whether the electricity network can accomodate the massive needs for electric power. This might be premature optimization. And yeah, non-toy EVs are still a luxury item.

> Of all countries, the Netherlands would have an especially large incentive to combat climate change

OTOH they are the best in the world in dealing with sea levels. They 're already up to 6-7m below sea level. The worst predictions for rising sea levels are within average 2m. The Dutch are so good at it that countries employ them to build their artificial islands.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#86

Post by beachy »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #79
tcmb wrote: post #18

I live in an apartment complex in Berlin. We have a parking garage that belongs to the complex. Unfortunately the housing company does not allow installation of a wallbox in the garage, even if I paid for it myself. The housing company is owned by the municipality. Large-scale adoption of electric cars is unrealistic when the majority of people have nowhere to charge it.

>>Unfortunately the housing company does not allow installation of a wallbox in the garage...Large-scale adoption of electric cars is unrealistic when the majority of people have nowhere to charge it." This can be solved with a law in a heartbeat. Installations etc take their time but the state itself subsidizes them--if they want to drive adoption rate up. So like they have parking meters they can put charging stati…

There are many rules and regulations that need to be cut through. Staying with friends in Hawaii, I asked where we could drop our towels. They said they had to go into the drier, it was against the rules to have clothes drying on the balcony. So to satisfy some idiotic idea of aesthetics, we're going to burn electricity instead of just using the sun?

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#87

Post by omnimus »

_ph_ wrote: post #75
omnimus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They suddenly in few years closed all nuclear which imcreased all need for coal. Its dirty decision 2038 is not enough. If they closed all coal and wait with nuclear to 2038 that would make sense. Coal barons need to sell that stuff quicky before it looses value. I am sure they will somehow artificilially increase cost of coal energy in upcoming years.

Nuclear never was a very large part of the German grid and currently the nuclear capacity is like 10% of the daily peak load. So while shutting down the nuclear power plants does make a carbon-free grid a bit more difficult, it won't make a huge difference. Most nuclear power plants would have been scheduled for decommission in the late 20ies or early 30is at maximum anyway.

So was the nuclear getting too expensive? Even temporary 10% seems like a good win. I am not sure where they want to get that coal 40%.

Or actually i suspect it will be imported from mostly Czechia which has suspiciously started to reopen coal mines and plants.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#88

Post by tomp »

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #63
tomp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't trust Germany's management to make any rational decisions about energy. They've been shutting down nuclear power plants for the past few years... What are they going to do in 2038, spends the nights in cold and darkness when the sun isn't shining, or be Putin's puppets dependent on Russian gas?

Germany is a very densely populated country (go take a look at map). Even a relatively minor accident at a nuclear facility would trigger a huge evacuation (I've seen the disaster control plans), causing major economic harm. Germany also does not have any viable means to store nuclear waste responsibly. Currently, nuclear does not look like the sane option for Germany.

How is France any different?

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#89

Post by martijn9612 »

henkslaaf wrote: post #60
skrebbel wrote: post #41

I suspect this is primarily because the tax for leasing an EV is going to double by January (from 4% to 8%, vs 22% for ICEs, but still, double). So people whose work perks includes a lease car and who have been considering electrical, are all getting one quickly now. And the Model 3 is one of the better EVs on the market, so there you go. Model 3 sales in NL will drop tremendously in 2020.

I am at this crossroards. Either I spend the money now, before December, and drive cheaply or I wait another five years.

You're probably too late, the ordering date to get a model 3 for this year has (almost) passed. They're saying that the order has to be confirmed before today 22:00 (oct 6), otherwise Tesla cannot guarantee the 2019 delivery date.

https://www.mistergreen.nl/tesla-model-3-lease

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#90

Post by _ph_ »

omnimus wrote: post #87
_ph_ wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear never was a very large part of the German grid and currently the nuclear capacity is like 10% of the daily peak load. So while shutting down the nuclear power plants does make a carbon-free grid a bit more difficult, it won't make a huge difference. Most nuclear power plants would have been scheduled for decommission in the late 20ies or early 30is at maximum anyway.

So was the nuclear getting too expensive? Even temporary 10% seems like a good win. I am not sure where they want to get that coal 40%. Or actually i suspect it will be imported from mostly Czechia which has suspiciously started to reopen coal mines and plants.

The existing plants are getting older, we still don't have any permanent storage nor is any in sight. Finally, it was already agreed in the early 2000s, that Germany should phase out nuclear energy and an end date was set for the mid-20ies. The Fukushima disaster only accellerated the plans for phasing out nuclear.

The energy is supposed to come from reneweable sources. Just from 2018 to 2019 their contribution to the grid jumped from 40 to over 45% due to coal becoming less attractive. There are no plants to net import energy into Germany. Up today we have been net exporters of electric energy. Of course, going forward the European grid will play a larger role, as it is a great way of balancing local fluctuations in wind and sun.

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