Does anyone really think that the use of gender neutral language (using they rather than he or she) is mis-gendering in the absence of knowing someone’s preferred pronoun set?
An Update to Our Community and an Apology
161–170 of 424 posts
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#162This really seems like a "respect mah authoritah!" situation followed by "oh crap it's blowing up, apply more power! This will not be re-litigated." Looking from the outside as someone who's mostly ignored SE for the last few years, this feels to me like something personal combined with making an opportunity. I can't help but feel that the current "Director of Community" at the core of this will be moving to a differ…
This is what really irritates me about moderating in general. The whole thing is an exercise in power tripping. Considering whether a decision was misguided is forbidden. You must always be dictator. Mistakes are never made.
Devil's advocate: sports referees never admit a mistake, either. There's a calculus where the upsides of correcting a mistake are outweighed by the downsides of inviting more gamesmanship of your decisions.
(I know nothing about the SO situation, purely talking generalities here.)
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#163Is that an apology? It reads more like "I am sorry that you are angry, but we did nothing wrong so suck it lololol" I don't know if the SO mod (Cellio) is in the wrong, but they did not give any explanation why Cellio was removed. I am unconvinced by this update.
Right, which is the kind of response I'd expect from a site like stack exchange.
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#164Is that an apology? It reads more like "I am sorry that you are angry, but we did nothing wrong so suck it lololol" I don't know if the SO mod (Cellio) is in the wrong, but they did not give any explanation why Cellio was removed. I am unconvinced by this update.
If a corporation ever admits doing something wrong, it's admissible evidence in a lawsuit against them. That's why corporations never admit any wrongdoing regardless of how obvious it is that they did. (And before anyone post the usual " corporations suck " rant, the exact same principle applies to individuals. Anybody who ever watched James Duane's "Never talk to the police" video knows why. Why would it be any diff…
There's truth to this. I tend to roll my eyes when people say: "I can't believe they won't take responsibility".
It appeals to our personal morals, but not the world we live in. Nobody's willing to fall on their sword.
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#165Does anyone really think that the use of gender neutral language (using they rather than he or she) is mis-gendering in the absence of knowing someone’s preferred pronoun set?
yeah, they do :(
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#166Does anyone really think that the use of gender neutral language (using they rather than he or she) is mis-gendering in the absence of knowing someone’s preferred pronoun set?
yeah, they do :( https://github.com/github/markup/issues/1258
... that's not what's happening in your link?
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#167The title is misleading, this is not an apology. As a former operator of a (much smaller) community website, I understand the motives behind SE actions. They want to avoid discussions about gender-neutral pronouns and other contentious topics completely. There are only risks and no benefits for SE business in such discussions.They actually do not want discussions, just questions and answers. Jeff Atwood once wrote a…
I'm under the impression that you misunderstand the CoC update procedure. It has not been updated . SE is hellbent on updating it in the future, and they explicitly stated that they are not willing to budge an inch on its gender-/pronoun-related contents. This is not accidental, there is not one single dissident behind it but the entire company. It will be the duty of the moderators to enforce the new CoC. The discus…
Why the hell are pronouns a centerpiece of a CoC?
Just be nice to people. For fuck's sake.
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#168Does anyone really think that the use of gender neutral language (using they rather than he or she) is mis-gendering in the absence of knowing someone’s preferred pronoun set?
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Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm under the impression that you misunderstand the CoC update procedure. It has not been updated . SE is hellbent on updating it in the future, and they explicitly stated that they are not willing to budge an inch on its gender-/pronoun-related contents. This is not accidental, there is not one single dissident behind it but the entire company. It will be the duty of the moderators to enforce the new CoC. The discus…
Why the hell are pronouns a centerpiece of a CoC? Just be nice to people. For fuck's sake.
> Why the hell are pronouns a centerpiece of a CoC?
Because aggressive misgendering including by refusal to use the subject’s preferred pronouns is currently a significant form of harassment which is actively promoted by certain groups.
> Just be nice to people.
The fact that people aggressively refuse to do that is exactly what pronoun policies are responding to.
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#170SE’s actions seem heavy-handed to say the least, and to be fair it is a private platform dictated by their own rules - but what this will lead to is disillusionment within the community and honestly I feel this has been a long time coming. If neither the mods nor users feel heard, who does this “platform” serve?
General users don't give a shit about this sort of insider drama. They will continue to use the sites without even knowing this is happening.
They're even using the platform to vent their frustration. A few might delete their accounts, most will put their pitchforks away after a while and come crawling back.