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Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

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Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

#81

Post by theboulevardier »

scarface74 wrote: post #30
theboulevardier wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lane splitting is generally quite safe if: a) Other motorists are expecting it and paying attention and b) The motorcyclist isn't going much faster than other traffic (if I remember correctly, where I live the law is that you shouldn't go more than 15mph above the speed of the traffic). I used to lane split when I had a motorcycle as the highway traffic was terrible for my morning commute and it was generally fine, t…

a) Other motorists are expecting it and paying attention and In jurisdictions where it is illegal, why should a motorist any more “expect it” than they should expect a car to do any other illegal behavior? Of course safe driving 101, is that certain common behaviors you should expect.

Well, if it is illegal that is another thing entirely. But where I live, it is legal and basically every motorcyclist does it.

Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

#82

Post by [deleted] »

rantwasp wrote: post #47
vgoh1 wrote: post #17

A few tips from a long-time motorcycle rider... 1. When crossing a car that could potentially accelerate into your path, train yourself to keep a hand on your front brake. 2. Get better at emergency stops. Train your self to "wait for the weight", meaning progressively apply front brake so that the weight of the bike transfers to the front tire before full application. Practice emergency stops so you don't end up wit…

here is a tip: just drive a car. I understand that there are things you can do to lower the chances of getting hit, but at the end of the day there is way more risk associated with this mode of transportation.

[deleted]

Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

#83

Post by teslabox »

vgoh1 wrote: post #17

A few tips from a long-time motorcycle rider... 1. When crossing a car that could potentially accelerate into your path, train yourself to keep a hand on your front brake. 2. Get better at emergency stops. Train your self to "wait for the weight", meaning progressively apply front brake so that the weight of the bike transfers to the front tire before full application. Practice emergency stops so you don't end up wit…

One of my pet peeves is the proliferation of blue-white LEDs into areas where the previous generation of light technology was perfectly acceptable and safe. I think car owners trick up their cars with blue-white LEDs (as replacement headlights, or as "light bars" and floodlights) because they confuse blue-white LEDs with the spectrum emitted by the high intensity discharge headlights [0] that were formerly used on expensive cars.

Motorcycles have long had mandated daytime running lights, as it helps make them more visible. Do modern motorcyclists intentionally retrofit super-bright Blue-White LEDs thinking they help improve their visibility?

What would be a good way to reach motorcyclists to help them realize their blinding lights aren't actually as protective as they presumably think?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp#High-intensity_discha...

Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

#84

Post by pedanticlawyer »

nguoi wrote: post #43
taneq wrote: post #18

As a motorcyclist and defensive driver I find these kind of articles worrying, because they imply that riders are rolling around trusting other people not to hit them. The first rule of motorcycling, that you accept when you swing your leg over a bike, is that no matter whose fault any collision might be, it is your responsibility and yours alone to anticipate and avoid all such incidents. "But he pulled out in front…

The list of potential actions another road user can do includes malicious punishment passing, failing to stop behind you, and intentional collisions. There is nothing the rider can do to stop these without stopping riding altogether. You also can't brake to avoid a car that goes into the side of you. At some point, you have to trust others to obey the rules of the road. An article like this is not zero-sum, it doesn'…

> You also can't brake to avoid a car that goes into the side of you.

I wear a biker tailbone protector and a back protector + an helmet when I go snowboarding and I'm an amateur snowboarder at best that rarely goes in the park and rides at mediocre speed.

Why I usually don't see cyclists wear some of them protections?

Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

#85

Post by scarface74 »

theboulevardier wrote: post #81
scarface74 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) Other motorists are expecting it and paying attention and In jurisdictions where it is illegal, why should a motorist any more “expect it” than they should expect a car to do any other illegal behavior? Of course safe driving 101, is that certain common behaviors you should expect.

Well, if it is illegal that is another thing entirely. But where I live, it is legal and basically every motorcyclist does it.

From what so can tell, it is illegal in Canada - the article is on a Canadian website.

Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

#86

Post by bagacrap »

rantwasp wrote: post #47
vgoh1 wrote: post #17

A few tips from a long-time motorcycle rider... 1. When crossing a car that could potentially accelerate into your path, train yourself to keep a hand on your front brake. 2. Get better at emergency stops. Train your self to "wait for the weight", meaning progressively apply front brake so that the weight of the bike transfers to the front tire before full application. Practice emergency stops so you don't end up wit…

here is a tip: just drive a car. I understand that there are things you can do to lower the chances of getting hit, but at the end of the day there is way more risk associated with this mode of transportation.

Only safer because of all the other motorists. So we're stuck in a transportation arms race now and the only way to win is to pilot larger and heavier hunks of steel. Ok I'll start driving an APC so I don't even notice my next high speed collision with a car, maybe then I'll drag the flaming wreck behind my war machine for a few miles without realizing it. The visibility out of this contraption just isn't that great. I trust you'll understand that I just didn't see you!

Btw sorry it takes up 4 parking spots and gets 2mpg. Y'see, we're also in a competition to use the greatest amount of shared resources possible before we die.

Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

#87

Post by ebg13 »

FussyZeus wrote: post #52
gowld wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wrong to conflate conspicuous consumption with quality. Expensive cars are usually bigger and more dangerous. It's also wrong to conflate cars and driving. Loving cars doesn't make you a safer driver, and may well be the opposite, since it focuses your attention on your vehicle and not the social interaction of driving.

Maybe it's just my experience, but near every time I see someone pull a boneheaded move, it's a Kia, or a Nissan, or a Hyundai. I'm not saying buying an expensive car means you drive better, there's no link there, but what I will say there is drivers of expensive cars are often more aggressive, occasionally to a dangerous degree, but honestly? I'm relatively okay with that, because they'll cut you off in traffic but…

> I'm not saying buying an expensive car means you drive better, there's no link there, but what I will say there is drivers of expensive cars are often more aggressive, occasionally to a dangerous degree, but honestly? I'm relatively okay with that, because they'll cut you off in traffic but then they race off and that's that. Meanwhile somebody in a shitty Kia SUV is doing the speed limit in the left lane and holding up 4 miles of traffic.

What you just said is that you're OK with reckless endangerment and not OK with inconvenience. I would ask you to please reconsider your feelings here.

Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

#88

Post by lkbm »

rantwasp wrote: post #41
timwaagh wrote: post #36

i'm a lifelong (nonmotor) cyclist finally learning to drive. what i notice is that driving is a lot more complex than cycling. you have so little space and so much vehicle. you have to stay in lane, take care when cornering. you are ultimately relying on cyclists or pedestrians not to do anything rash because the chances of you being concentrated on something else when a sudden crossing happens are significant. In wh…

you have to stay in your lane and pay attention even as a cyclist. the consequences of a mistake are the ones that are really different - but on the upside you way less likely to get seriously hurt in a car vs riding a bike. on top of that: it’s really fascinating for me to see people putting the burden of their own physical safety on other (ef if you know that a driver has practically a zero chance of seeing you in…

> you have to stay in your lane and pay attention even as a cyclist.

Sure, but my lane is 2x+ my width, and my body spans the width of my vehicle.

When I drive a car I'm not familiar with, it takes some time to get a sense for how wide it is. With a new bicycle, it doesn't--it spans from my left hand to my right hand. (My last driving experience was a short bus for the first time ever, after several years of not driving at all. A normal sized car is a lot less tricky, but still wider than and not centered on my body.)

Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

#89

Post by johnr2 »

> (taneq) I'd amend it to "anything that you could reasonably have anticipated is your fault"

I agree with your amended comment. In 30 years of motorcycling I managed to avoid hitting cars that pulled out in front of me. I lost count of the drivers that would pull up to a side junction, look in my direction, actually lock eyes with me and then pull out in front of me.

Eventually I encountered a van driver who had perfected the maneouver so that I relaxed at the last second, just before he accelerated into my path. I hit the side of the van. Fortunately I got away with a few bruises and a bent bike, but it could have been a lot worse.

The incident made me realise that caution and good reactions aren't enough to guarantee accident avoidance. I no longer ride every day, which is a pity as I still love motorcycles.

Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists

#90

Post by taneq »

lkbm wrote: post #68
falcolas wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting to me: As a fellow motorcyclist, I agree with your philosophy wholeheartedly. But most bicyclists (who are arguably at more risk from a car/truck than a motorcyclist) disagree with this just as wholeheartedly. I seriously wonder why this dichotomy exists, especially as bicycles are gaining electric motors capable of propelling them at higher and higher speeds.

As a cyclist, I believe that the driver should be held to the higher standard, but also that I can never trust them to live up to their responsibility, so I gotta be ready to stop and/or dodge any reckless maneuver they make. We tend to conflate the moral judgement of responsibility/fault with the actual reality of responsibility. If you're driving a deadly vehicle, the moral burden is on you not to kill me, but I st…

You've chosen to place your life in jeopardy by riding a push-bike in traffic. Surely that bears some consequence?
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