Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#321

Post by hdfbdtbcdg » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

goatinaboat wrote: post #275

bmarquez wrote: post #3

I participated in men's work, not specifically the ManKind Project but a closely related organization. I personally found it helpful doing weekly check-ins and having people holding me accountable to my goals. Unfortunately, the stigma regarding men sharing feelings is prevalent in western society, and it's not only the men causing it. When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "A…

When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "Are they gay?" It's funny. From the days of chivalry all the way to the modern patriarchy, men's behaviours have been conditioned by one overriding factor: what will impress women? I don't see that evaporating overnight. Men suppress the emotions for the simple reason that women have demonstrated a preference for men that do that, and th…

Using the word patriarchy to describe modern western society is always going to derail any conversation about men's issues into a flame war.

EDIT added 'modern'.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#322

Post by weberc2 » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

floren wrote: post #31

sabarn01 wrote: post #19

Whats wrong with stoicism. Feelings are fleeting in general didn't lead me to positive places. I think we should put a high value on people that can handle their own problems.

Seneca said in his third letter to Lucilius, "Ponder for a long time whether you shall admit a given person to your friendship; but when you have decided to admit him, welcome him with all your heart and soul. Speak as boldly with him as with yourself." I have one friend with whom I'll speak this boldly--some men have no-one. (I also think more women are in this position than society may assume)

I find that the extent to which men (and to a lesser extent, women) have this support varies between secular and religious (or at least Christian) communities. Christianity (as I’ve experienced it, anyway) promotes sharing feelings—for example, many churches have some notion of small groups or community groups in which (among many other things) people share things they struggle with and are supported and prayed for by others.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#323

Post by hdfbdtbcdg » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

pdub123 wrote: post #279

If you think "The Patriarchy"^TM exists, you have a very simplistic, univariate understanding of reality. You're associating causality for whatever negative things happen to you in your life, not with your own set of circumstances, choices, or human agency, but rather with one single factor-- some ethereal 00.00001% group of conspiratorial, ostensibly straight white old men... with whatever happens to you in life. It…

> i'm afraid life is a bit more complicated than that, dear.

I had vouched this comment until I read this sentence.

The OP is being offensive but being patronizing strengthens their prejudices.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#324

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #202

xythrowaway wrote: post #43

How are we, men, supposed to take these articles seriously when we have so many examples of how bad it is to share our feelings? Look at the character assassination of Stallman last week. He shared his feelings with some women, and look at what happened to him. If he had not communicated his desire to date some of these women, and not communicated his feelings about the confusing ethics (in his mind) surrounding sexu…

>He shared his feelings with some women, and look at what happened to him. I don't think he shared any feelings - he expressed his views. Very orthogonal to sharing feelings.

Putting it that way somehow seems to make it even worse.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#325

Post by asabjorn » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

cthalupa wrote: post #168

mensetmanusman wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good example of an association fallacy.

I'm not saying this because the author of the books is Christian. I am saying this because they are explicitly relationship advice guidelines from a Christian religious perspective. Most religions have ideas about relationships that are not informed by anything secular, and Christianity certainly does. Opening a preview of the book I was quickly able to find lines like these: "If we are willing to be molded by His ha…

You are right the authors are clear on being Christian and that they are part of western tradition. And for disclosure my fiancé is Hindu and I am a Christian so other more unusual mixes can also learn from each other.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#326

Post by kungtotte » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

Strom wrote: post #294

kaitai wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some of the articles recommend you find some good guys to talk to in a private setting, rather than posting things on your doorplate at a university, for instance. Talk with some good guy friends first if you think having sex with 14-year-olds is ok, and perhaps they'll give you some feedback so you don't have to hash it out on the public stage.

Having sex with a 14 year old person is completely ok in a lot of countries, including places like Germany & Italy [1], with no pedophilia panic going on. -- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe

I live in Sweden where the age of consent is 15. On paper it's technically legal for me (35 years old) to have sex with a 15 year old.

Almost everyone in society would castigate me if I actually went ahead and did that, some going so far as to call me a pedophile but definitely labeling me a creep going after children.

Don't confuse the laws with what people think.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#327

Post by krapp » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #321

goatinaboat wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "Are they gay?" It's funny. From the days of chivalry all the way to the modern patriarchy, men's behaviours have been conditioned by one overriding factor: what will impress women? I don't see that evaporating overnight. Men suppress the emotions for the simple reason that women have demonstrated a preference for men that do that, and th…

Using the word patriarchy to describe modern western society is always going to derail any conversation about men's issues into a flame war. EDIT added 'modern'.

Western societies are traditionally patriarchies, based as they are on the patriarchal ideals of Judeo-Christian religions.

That's simply a statement of fact, and reasonable people should be able to discuss it on a site like HN without flamewar.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#328

Post by heavenlyblue » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #313

heavenlyblue wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Generally, being confident gets you breaks, even if you're astonishingly incompetent or just plain manipulative and dishonest. It gets you breaks until you reach the line which people don't want you to cross (which you will eventually cross due to your ever-inflating ego). At which point everyone you know will silently isolate you and you'll not even be able to realise what happened in time (again, due to your ove…

That glass ceiling limit seems to be at the CEO level, in the case of Elizabeth Holmes and other various "confident phonies" that get posted here on HN every few weeks. So, there doesn't seem to be a practical limit to how far overconfidence can get you in your career.

>> That glass ceiling limit seems to be at the CEO level, in the case of Elizabeth Holmes and other various "confident phonies" that get posted here on HN every few weeks.

Are you joking? Yes - she was the CEO, but she's also facing up 20 in prison after being that CEO [1].

It's not just about getting to the top. It's about whether you'll remain there and whether the history will try to forget you as soon as it can.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#329

Post by phkahler » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

weberc2 wrote: post #312

munificent wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not only the men causing it. One thing I find fascinating about humans is that we are so compulsively cultural that we will actively propagate cultural practices that are harmful even to ourselves. When you are young, you absorb whatever culture is around you completely uncritically, and then you immediately turn around and start broadcasting to the next generation. Cultural changes and evolves, of course, but…

> Cultural changes and evolves, of course, but it's really hard to uproot a norm or more once it's settled in, even if it's one that causes you personal pain. I don’t know if I believe this in general. Certainly we are happy to utterly change our lifestyles whenever a convenient new technology comes about. How much have smart phones or social media changed us culturally in the spans of a couple decades? If culture ca…

Adopting new technology may seem like change, until you go up a level and see it as consumerism. Then you see that nothings changed.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#330

Post by asabjorn » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

anon9001 wrote: post #208

asabjorn wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it’s very fun. Studying this is the rabbit hole of rabbit holes. I recommend the podcast The Portal by Eric Weinstein if you want the idea equivalent of this stuff.

In case anyone else is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM9f0W2KD5s

I typically listen to it on Apple podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-portal/id146999956... or Spotify where he posts the episode earlier https://open.spotify.com/show/3qv8BS1HzrgKpDnXSlYWWL?si=cUA0...