Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "Are they gay?" It's funny. From the days of chivalry all the way to the modern patriarchy, men's behaviours have been conditioned by one overriding factor: what will impress women? I don't see that evaporating overnight. Men suppress the emotions for the simple reason that women have demonstrated a preference for men that do that, and th…
12th or 13th century chivalrous poetry from South of France was still full of feelings and what have you, and a little earlier the Arthur-related stories were not void of feelings either. I personally blame the “Protestant ethic”, for lack of a better name, which started culturally imposing itself starting with the mid-1600s in England and present-day Netherlands (in the early 1600s a guy like Shakespeare was still n…
Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
301–310 of 402 posts
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Confidence and vulnerability aren't opposites. The confidence that comes from going through vulnerability and coming out stronger is worth more than the facade style of confidence, which covers unprocessed weakness.
Confidence and overt vulnerability are opposites. No one is going to be impressed if you burst into tears during a code review. They're going to be a lot more impressed if you bullshit your way through with positivity and can-do. This is irrespective of the quality of the code. This culture rewards overt displays of competitive individualism and punishes weakness irrespective of actual productivity, value, or objecti…
It gets you breaks until you reach the line which people don't want you to cross (which you will eventually cross due to your ever-inflating ego). At which point everyone you know will silently isolate you and you'll not even be able to realise what happened in time (again, due to your overly-inflated ego).
I had seen that happen. People who are full of shit always have a glass ceiling, since they are even more useless than people who are willing to directly do bad to other people (at least those are more-or-less clear in terms of the direction they take).
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our society will always value men who are confident, this is so much deeper to me than being scared to share your feelings because “it’s gay”. Women are attracted to confidence, employers reward confidence, hiring managers are impressed by confidence. Vulnerability and weakness are just not rewarded for men or women, but especially for men.
Confidence and vulnerability aren't opposites. The confidence that comes from going through vulnerability and coming out stronger is worth more than the facade style of confidence, which covers unprocessed weakness.
I think "confidence" is rooted in the belief that "whatever happens, I'll be able to handle it. I'll be okay." Showing confidence is externally-emoting as if you believe that to be the case.
Vulnerability...I'm less sure of. I think it is the ability to be wounded. By being vulnerable, you reveal information which someone else could use to ridicule you. Patrick Lencioni's work on organizational health refers to vulnerability as a key piece of building trust[1]. How does it work? By showing that you expect that people hold a social norm against ridiculing people for the thing you reveal. That you are willing to pay a cost for that social norm. I think when people use the word "vulnerability", they mean sticking your neck out for a social expectation of compassionate collaboration -- norm-building vulnerability.
And that sort of vulnerability is compatible with confidence. If they do ridicule you, then you've learned what sort of person they are and you have the power to respond accordingly.
But I think its easy to confuse norm-building vulnerability with another vulnerability: insecurity-revealing vulnerability. This is where you present something that could genuinely hurt your sense of belonging -- Information which you think others could present as evidence that you should be ostracized from a group. For example, a man in a homophobic environment who reveals that he is bisexual. How should a man express these sorts of insecurities? By default, he shouldn't. He should hide them until he can find a supportive community. Unless he's with someone he already trusts or a mens' meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. Don't express insecurity-revealing vulnerability.
[1] https://www.tablegroup.com/newsroom/news/vulnerability-endea... is an example, but he talks about the concept in The Advantage and his novels.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#304I participated in men's work, not specifically the ManKind Project but a closely related organization. I personally found it helpful doing weekly check-ins and having people holding me accountable to my goals. Unfortunately, the stigma regarding men sharing feelings is prevalent in western society, and it's not only the men causing it. When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "A…
I have few male friends I can share feelings with and most of the females I've dealt with just don't want this while wishing for men to be more sensible.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#305I participated in men's work, not specifically the ManKind Project but a closely related organization. I personally found it helpful doing weekly check-ins and having people holding me accountable to my goals. Unfortunately, the stigma regarding men sharing feelings is prevalent in western society, and it's not only the men causing it. When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "A…
I've found that depends on which generation you're interacting with. Millenials seem far more able to say "I love you" to people that they love outside of their immediate biological family. It's not just the women, either. Men are able to express their feelings to other men in a non-romantic way. Absent is the toxic homophobia that has so colored previous generations. Hell, their recognition of non-binary genders, pr…
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
This condescending comment ("whatever negative things happen to you", "more complicated than that, dear") ignores at decades of research in sociology, critical theory and political philosophy - which, at the very least, say that concerns about the effects of gender in the structure of society cannot be so easily dismissed. >but rather with one single factor-- some ethereal 00.00001% group of conspiratorial, ostensibl…
> concerns about the effects of gender in the structure of society cannot be so easily dismissed. Why not? They've been entirely constant for the history of civilization.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
> concerns about the effects of gender in the structure of society cannot be so easily dismissed. Why not? They've been entirely constant for the history of civilization.
For a great deal of civilisation, so was rule by tyrants and warlords, and eating meat. Arguments from nature don't get you very far.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#308Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#309If you think "The Patriarchy"^TM exists, you have a very simplistic, univariate understanding of reality. You're associating causality for whatever negative things happen to you in your life, not with your own set of circumstances, choices, or human agency, but rather with one single factor-- some ethereal 00.00001% group of conspiratorial, ostensibly straight white old men... with whatever happens to you in life. It…
This condescending comment ("whatever negative things happen to you", "more complicated than that, dear") ignores at decades of research in sociology, critical theory and political philosophy - which, at the very least, say that concerns about the effects of gender in the structure of society cannot be so easily dismissed. >but rather with one single factor-- some ethereal 00.00001% group of conspiratorial, ostensibl…
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think I understand the desire or the concern here. Look around the BBQ in the back yard at any party anywhere in 'merica and you'll find the guys hanging out and chatting away from their wives. Look at sports teams in your high schools, colleges, and local clubs and you'll find men hanging out together. Look at Men's bible study groups or similar if that's your thing. Go to the local men's barber shop and fin…
> Look around the BBQ in the back yard at any party anywhere in 'merica and you'll find the guys hanging out and chatting away from their wives. I don't know about your experience. But my experience: BBQs are typically a party situation with your household and others. If it's just the guys that's a friends thing. > Look at sports teams in your high schools, colleges, and local clubs and you'll find men hanging out to…
https://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/mental-health/what-is-bar...