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Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

nytimes.com

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Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#71

Post by nir »

tsotha wrote: post #22
dmix wrote: post #3

It's seemingly safe to believe that there is a very high probability that the US and Israel are behind Stuxnet. According to Wikipedia, if this is true than 2010 had the first occurrence of cyber-warfare between nation states in our history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

>It's seemingly safe to believe that there is a very high probability that the US and Israel are behind Stuxnet. I guess, if you're willing to take the word of unidentified people who may or may not even exist. Though you did include a lot of weasel words in that sentence...

Quite a few of the people quoted in the article are identified, seem to be in position to know what they're talking about and definitely exist.

By "weasel words" you mean OP (and NYT) don't state as facts things which are, while very likely, not confirmed to be facts?

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#72

Post by mahmud »

klbarry wrote: post #60
forensic wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the educated Persians I know hate the crap out of the Iranian government and are happy about Stuxnet

Could this be confirmation bias, because only liberal iranians would talk to a Westerner?

Or maybe sometimes people say things that are not entirely true.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#73

Post by dmix »

nir wrote: post #71
tsotha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's seemingly safe to believe that there is a very high probability that the US and Israel are behind Stuxnet. I guess, if you're willing to take the word of unidentified people who may or may not even exist. Though you did include a lot of weasel words in that sentence...

Quite a few of the people quoted in the article are identified, seem to be in position to know what they're talking about and definitely exist. By "weasel words" you mean OP (and NYT) don't state as facts things which are, while very likely, not confirmed to be facts?

He meant "weasel words" by my comments avoidance of just straight out saying "the US and Isreal are behind Stuxnet".

Which I didn't say because there isn't direct proof.

But there is still a very high probability given the only target was a very specific and obscure industrial hardware component, the unusual complexity of the virus (with its rare use of multiple zero-day vulnerabilities at once) and the fact that it couldn't be tested without access to equipment that is only accessible to governments and major corporations.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#74

Post by rdtsc »

extension wrote: post #8

I haven't decided yet how to feel about Stuxnet. On one hand, good guys don't release viruses into the wild, period . On the other hand, only good has come from this. Iran doesn't get nukes until later and industry figures out that they need to lock down their machine controllers, without any real damage.

> On the other hand, only good has come from this

Are you completely sure of that?

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#75

Post by rdtsc »

forensic wrote: post #52
MichaelSalib wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran doesn't get nukes until later So, we're not going to change the end-game, we're just going to piss of Iran....and you think that's good? Consider things from the Iranian's perspective. Back in the day, they were establishing a legitimate democratically elected government. The US overthrew that government and pushed a brutal dictator into power, who tortured and murdered many Iranians. From their perspective, the…

You're speaking as if that hypothetical person in Iran actually exists and is immortal. The Iranians in 1953 are not the same Iranians today. The situation today is that you have a sabre rattling theocracy that funds terrorism trying to get nuclear weapons. What possible concession could the West make to get Iran to stop striving for nukes? Nothing. Iranian leadership wants nukes before their rule is overthrown by th…

As opposed to other sabre-rattling brutal countries that fund terrorism and _already_ have nuclear weapons.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#76

Post by rdtsc »

extension wrote: post #18
MichaelSalib wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran doesn't get nukes until later So, we're not going to change the end-game, we're just going to piss of Iran....and you think that's good? Consider things from the Iranian's perspective. Back in the day, they were establishing a legitimate democratically elected government. The US overthrew that government and pushed a brutal dictator into power, who tortured and murdered many Iranians. From their perspective, the…

So, we're not going to change the end-game, we're just going to piss of Iran....and you think that's good? All I want is for nobody to get nuked. I think it's more likely that nobody will get nuked if Iran doesn't have nukes. But you're right that Stuxnet is a dirty move that erodes trust, that's why I'm conflicted. We have a terrible track record of getting large scale systems secured, even in areas where those syst…

> All I want is for nobody to get nuked.

If you are citizen of any of the countries that have nuclear weapons, have you considered lobbying to eliminate those? If not, then you are not really for "nobody to get nuked".

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#77

Post by ars »

rdtsc wrote: post #75
forensic wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're speaking as if that hypothetical person in Iran actually exists and is immortal. The Iranians in 1953 are not the same Iranians today. The situation today is that you have a sabre rattling theocracy that funds terrorism trying to get nuclear weapons. What possible concession could the West make to get Iran to stop striving for nukes? Nothing. Iranian leadership wants nukes before their rule is overthrown by th…

As opposed to other sabre-rattling brutal countries that fund terrorism and _already_ have nuclear weapons.

Just because North Korea and Pakistan have nukes doesn't mean we should open the floodgates and let anyone have them.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#78

Post by endtime »

metachris wrote: post #5
endtime wrote: post #4

Why is it so surprising/impressive that the worm was tested on centrifuges similar to those it was targeting? More than once, the article emphasizes that this is unusual and interesting...am I missing something?

They are complicated, large and extremely expensive. Nothing one could do in a garage.

Okay...I didn't know anyone was still considering the possibility that Stuxnet was developed in a garage.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#79

Post by atomical »

klbarry wrote: post #60
forensic wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the educated Persians I know hate the crap out of the Iranian government and are happy about Stuxnet

Could this be confirmation bias, because only liberal iranians would talk to a Westerner?

I have met a lot of Iranians here who do not like the regime in Iran but I have little perspective on those in Iran. I had a Farsi teacher who said that those in rural areas were more loyal to the current regime than those in populated cities.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#80

Post by ryoshu »

Peaker wrote: post #40
_szvt wrote: post #26

You Americans don't get it. Israel and US murder our scientists. They try to stop our progress towards nuclear energy. They put sanction on us so we can't buy things like air planes and our planes are old and they crash and people die. ... All because of what? Because they believe we want to build stupid nuclear bomb -which we don't- and they have no evidence of it. So we stay in a war. Peace is never going to become…

Why is Iran developing long-range missiles with the capability of carrying nuclear warheads in parallel to its nuclear program? Iran has been involved in multiple wars by proxy for a while now, it is unlikely an opportunity to arm itself with nukes will arise and they will not take it.

Most likely because it is a non-Arab power in the Middle East that is threatened on two sides by the world's only standing super power -- a super power that has routinely threatened invasion of Iran. Look at the WikiLeaks cables that exposed the pressure from other Middle Eastern governments for the US to invade Iran. Given the geopolitics, Iran's desire for nuclear weapons is perfectly rational.
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