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Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

nytimes.com

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Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#31

Post by jhamburger »

MichaelSalib wrote: post #28
jhamburger wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Rational' and 'personal gain' are kind of relative to your worldview. The people running Iran believe that if they launch a missile into Tel Aviv, the worst thing that can happen is they get sent to paradise for eternity and Allah is waiting to give them a high-five for wiping Israel off the map. Is it still 'irrational' for them to do so?

The people running Iran believe that if they launch a missile into Tel Aviv, the worst thing that can happen is they get sent to paradise for eternity and Allah is waiting to give them a high-five for wiping Israel off the map. Do you have a cite proving this claim?

I'm not sure what part of what I said is even debatable. Do you not think they believe God supports their mission to destroy Israel?

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#32

Post by btmorex »

_szvt wrote: post #30
btmorex wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think it's inevitable that Israel gets nuked? I find that very unlikely, especially since the attacking nation would definitely be destroyed as well. Iran doesn't want nukes so that they can destroy Israel. They wants nukes, because obtaining them immediately makes them powerful on the world stage. (and I say that as someone who really doesn't want to see them get nukes too because they're a crazy religious theoc…

Think for one minute. Who is the craziest nation in this regard? Who has used nukes twice to murder people. US of course.

Not sure what your point is. The worst of effects of nuclear weapons weren't known at the time (yes, killing all those civilians was terrible too, but worse things happened in WW2).

Here's a few questions for you: who has a leader that bizarrely denies the holocaust? who has a religious paramilitary force that murders their own civilians? who keeps innocent students hostage so that they can play with them like pawns in the game of international politics?

And here's a bonus wikileaks reveal: who is so disliked by their neighbors that ALL nearby countries want the US to attack them?

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#33

Post by _szvt »

btmorex wrote: post #32
_szvt wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think for one minute. Who is the craziest nation in this regard? Who has used nukes twice to murder people. US of course.

Not sure what your point is. The worst of effects of nuclear weapons weren't known at the time (yes, killing all those civilians was terrible too, but worse things happened in WW2). Here's a few questions for you: who has a leader that bizarrely denies the holocaust? who has a religious paramilitary force that murders their own civilians? who keeps innocent students hostage so that they can play with them like pawns…

So really?! Holocaust? You really want to get into this? holocaust happened or not is one thing, Murdering innocent Palestinians and kicking them out of their country, and supporting this is another.

who has a religious paramilitary force that murders their own civilians? I don't know, but I know how kills Iranians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And who supported Iraq in the war against Iran.

who keeps innocent students hostage so that they can play with them like pawns in the game of international politics? I've no idea what are you referring to?

who is so disliked by their neighbors that ALL nearby countries want the US to attack them? And who is the most disliked country in the word? Who has military attacks on most countries in the world? Let's say Iraq. Iraqis dislike Iran or US? How about Afghans? How about Pakistanis? Iran is disliked by the nation of his neighbors or by the governments? Who is disliked by the nations?

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#34

Post by btilly »

dmix wrote: post #3

It's seemingly safe to believe that there is a very high probability that the US and Israel are behind Stuxnet. According to Wikipedia, if this is true than 2010 had the first occurrence of cyber-warfare between nation states in our history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

The first occurrence? Very unlikely.

It goes back farther than you'd think. The first incident that I've heard about was in 1982. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_pipeline_sabotage for details.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#35

Post by btilly »

MichaelSalib wrote: post #13
extension wrote: post #8

I haven't decided yet how to feel about Stuxnet. On one hand, good guys don't release viruses into the wild, period . On the other hand, only good has come from this. Iran doesn't get nukes until later and industry figures out that they need to lock down their machine controllers, without any real damage.

Iran doesn't get nukes until later So, we're not going to change the end-game, we're just going to piss of Iran....and you think that's good? Consider things from the Iranian's perspective. Back in the day, they were establishing a legitimate democratically elected government. The US overthrew that government and pushed a brutal dictator into power, who tortured and murdered many Iranians. From their perspective, the…

Heck, the US has never even apologized for overthrowing their government and installing a murderous dictator...

The closest the US has come to an apology that I am aware of is Obama's 2009 speech in Cairo where he said, In the middle of the Cold War, the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government. See http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president... for the full speech.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#36

Post by icarus_drowning »

btmorex wrote: post #29
Estragon wrote: post #25

I probably shouldn't be surprised by willful ignorance anymore, but it amazes me that everybody in the article can celebrate this achievement and at the same time admit that it's just "pushing back the clock." Israel's still going to get hit by a nuclear weapon some time, because the technology to build one is just going to keep getting cheaper and more accessible.

You think it's inevitable that Israel gets nuked? I find that very unlikely, especially since the attacking nation would definitely be destroyed as well. Iran doesn't want nukes so that they can destroy Israel. They wants nukes, because obtaining them immediately makes them powerful on the world stage. (and I say that as someone who really doesn't want to see them get nukes too because they're a crazy religious theoc…

Its certainly probably that Iran doesn't want nukes in order to use them against Israel. But that doesn't mean you get to discount their rhetoric about destroying Israel, and the fact that such rhetoric aligns horrifically neatly with the notion of a nuclear Iran.

Still, the prospect of an Iran that is powerful on the world stage and the inevitable proliferation that will result probably increases the chances that someone crazy enough to nuke an Israeli city will get ahold of enough material to do so exponentially.

So this doesn't make it inevitable, just a hell of a lot more likely.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#37

Post by JanezStupar »

jhamburger wrote: post #31
MichaelSalib wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people running Iran believe that if they launch a missile into Tel Aviv, the worst thing that can happen is they get sent to paradise for eternity and Allah is waiting to give them a high-five for wiping Israel off the map. Do you have a cite proving this claim?

I'm not sure what part of what I said is even debatable. Do you not think they believe God supports their mission to destroy Israel?

You are watching Fox too much.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#38

Post by Peaker »

_szvt wrote: post #33
btmorex wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your point is. The worst of effects of nuclear weapons weren't known at the time (yes, killing all those civilians was terrible too, but worse things happened in WW2). Here's a few questions for you: who has a leader that bizarrely denies the holocaust? who has a religious paramilitary force that murders their own civilians? who keeps innocent students hostage so that they can play with them like pawns…

So really?! Holocaust? You really want to get into this? holocaust happened or not is one thing, Murdering innocent Palestinians and kicking them out of their country, and supporting this is another. who has a religious paramilitary force that murders their own civilians? I don't know, but I know how kills Iranians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And who supported Iraq in the war against Iran. who k…

> So really?! Holocaust? You really want to get into this? holocaust happened or not is one thing,

Are you trying to suggest that you're a holocaust denier too?

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#39

Post by rdouble »

extension wrote: post #8

I haven't decided yet how to feel about Stuxnet. On one hand, good guys don't release viruses into the wild, period . On the other hand, only good has come from this. Iran doesn't get nukes until later and industry figures out that they need to lock down their machine controllers, without any real damage.

good guys don't release viruses into the wild, period.

Didn't one of the guys from Y Combinator once release a virus into the wild?

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#40

Post by Peaker »

_szvt wrote: post #26

You Americans don't get it. Israel and US murder our scientists. They try to stop our progress towards nuclear energy. They put sanction on us so we can't buy things like air planes and our planes are old and they crash and people die. ... All because of what? Because they believe we want to build stupid nuclear bomb -which we don't- and they have no evidence of it. So we stay in a war. Peace is never going to become…

Why is Iran developing long-range missiles with the capability of carrying nuclear warheads in parallel to its nuclear program?

Iran has been involved in multiple wars by proxy for a while now, it is unlikely an opportunity to arm itself with nukes will arise and they will not take it.

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