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Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

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461–470 of 508 posts

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most English speakers would say, "a woman who I was with for 3 years." In this case "with" is understood to mean in a romantic relationship. I don't think what you said is technically correct. "With whom I was" calls for something (a verb or phrase) to be tacked onto the end, but it would still be awkward. For example, "with whom I was dating for three years."

> Most English speakers would say, "a woman who I was with for 3 years." Actually, I'm pretty certain you're supposed to use "whom" there, not "who".

From another perspective: whom is one of the few relics of the entirely dropped dative case in English (via the also disappearing objective or oblique case which mostly only remains in English personal pronouns I versus me). It's generally relegated only to formal writing, and some (including the Oxford English Dictionary since the 1980s) consider "whom" to be entirely deceased, ancient, and no longer an active English word.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#462
post #203

I've tried a number of dating websites in the past year, and all of them are like this. First and foremost: No matter how hard they try to hide it, the male/female balance on all straight dating sites is completely off. I'd say it's about 80% male. So most of them fill with fake accounts to get the balance backs. The matching algorithms don't really exist, they are extremely primitive and usually optimised for engage…

For-profit dating sites also share a common problem: they need to extract revenue out of you, but the more successful they are at being dating sites, the sooner they lose you as a customer. All the problems we discuss are pretty much related to this point: They probably have good matching algorithms, but they only showed you actual good matches you'd be gone from the site (taking the other person with you). So they h…

To some extent, isn't that true of all products? When you sell a product to solve a problem, once you make the sale, assuming it actually solves the problem, the customer won't come back.

That's why, for example, Photoshop used to cost $1000 (outrageous!) and now costs $20/month (outrageous!), and users hate it both ways. Or why electronics are less repairable than ever, and companies are optimizing for cheapness, and you can just buy a new one when it breaks. When you open the hood on your car you just see another hood, and you couldn't really work on your engine (it's a big noisy proprietary computer now) if you even could get to it, anyway.

This is simply how the economy works today. People complained yesterday about software patents being legal roadblocks to make easy things hard. Then they go back to writing proprietary APIs for closed-source web services, which are mostly just technical roadblocks to make easy things hard. Most of the work we do now is to serve the preservation of the capitalist system, not because it's actually useful work.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does respectful mean to you?

Respect the users. Respect the process. Don't sell out your users for a few $$.

I don’t know much about this space, but is that not true of some of the other apps (Hinge, Bumble, etc)?

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#464
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my reading is correct, the person who you responded to is a woman who has tried online dating. Even if it is not, that is probably a man who has tried online dating well and did well enough to be able to ask a woman he is dating/dated and shared what was told to them. Your response is quite illustrative of reactions men have to observations on this topic the women make -- they do not like it . They especially do n…

The instagram mentioned contains mostly messages. Most guys aren't even getting matches, so they are not being disqualified because of their messages.

Correct.

The images and the bio on a tinder profile has to so bad that women quite literally pick people whom women pretty much know will interact that way because even that is better than the alternatives.

You are on HN. There are hundreds of posts about negotiations and evaluation of available options. BATNA is thrown around in every one of them. I am baffled that people continue to pretend that it just does not magically apply to dating.

Your profile is your pitch deck. If no one wants to fund you, you should ask yourself if you need to change your pitch deck if you are convinced that your idea has a merit. Or maybe you can follow the HN startup advice and pivot to something else.

If doing the same thing over and over again does not achieve the desired result, one is ought to adjust approach.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#465
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the idea behind bumble. AFAIK men and women rate each other similarly to Tinder (yes/no). However, when a match occurs, women have to send the first message. This doesn't solve the gender inbalance though. This problem is much more difficult to solve, and requires further homogenization (?) of the male and female gender role. This should be one of the more important challenges of our time. Lonelyness and sexua…

That involves women doing more work. The reason why women tolerate the current system is that it is less work. You just apply a filter to the incoming requests. It's much easier than having to produce requests. That's why women's profiles say "don't just say 'hey'" and they get to respond with... Hey.

I met a lot of great women on Bumble. I really appreciated having them do the hard work of speaking first.

Yeah, I got a few "hey"s, which just put the ball back in my court, and I'd decide whether I wanted to put for the effort of opening the conversation. It's actually a really good skill for showing that you're interested in her, by picking up on some detail of her profile. It shows that you're perceptive and have some common interest. And conversely, if she can't do better than "hey", that tells me something about her.

I like it better than the assumption that I was required to do it, as on most other dating sites/apps. That assumption is sexist, though less annoying than being bombarded with dick pics and "DTF?" openers as so many women are. Dating sites are hard for them, too.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#466
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For-profit dating sites also share a common problem: they need to extract revenue out of you, but the more successful they are at being dating sites, the sooner they lose you as a customer. All the problems we discuss are pretty much related to this point: They probably have good matching algorithms, but they only showed you actual good matches you'd be gone from the site (taking the other person with you). So they h…

That's one dynamic. But there's also the opposite incentive of word of mouth from positive experiences. When I hear of real people paying money on a dating site and finding what they want, that's a powerful motivator. So we can only hypothesize whether a few desperate users do cough out more cash than a larger number of one-time subscribers would, but the later strategy is certainly more sustainable over the long ter…

It's a strange situation where they're literally telling you the great thing they found on that website is no longer available!

It's also a very personal decision, perhaps more like picking movies or music you'd like. I don't generally trust any of my friends' movie or music recommendations.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is people misrepresenting themselves something you encounter frequently? Seems like a short sighted move.

It's completely understandable to put yourself out there as the best version of yourself, but yes I have frequently seen people exaggerating themselves to the point of misrepresentation. You see profiles with only pictures that clearly were taken 5-10 years ago, or only picture of the face with a filter so heavy they are barely recognizable. It is certainly short sighted because you can only hide behind a carefully c…

You see profiles with only pictures that clearly were taken 5-10 years ago

Again my experience is long ago but I would occasionally be matched with someone I knew IRL and women shaving 5-10 years (e.g. moving into a lower age bracket) was very common.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#468
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality for someone like me, a very average looking guy, is then that I get zero messages. Doesn't really solve anything either.

Average looking shouldn't be a problem to most people. Just don't look for people who want to date models. Use a dating site that focuses on content and interest rather than looks. But even if you're somewhere where the initial decision has to be made based on a photo, you can make that photo interesting. I met my wife on a dating site 13 years ago (a small, cheap one focused specifically on Christians), and although…

Apps like Tinder seem like they'd be looks-focused, but it's true that a picture is worth a thousand words. What you're doing in the picture says a lot about you. So does being well-groomed and choosing a picture that's well-focused and well-composed. A nice smile goes a long way.

Women aren't as looks-focused as a lot of frustrated men present them. Average is just fine, as long as your picture suggests somebody that they can engage with. "Below average" can also go a long way if you've chosen a picture that makes you look like what she wants, which might be "fun" or "family" or "kind". The men who think it's all about their looks are most likely the ones who only judge women by theirs. And while some women do that, the vast majority don't.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#469
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, social engineering for the modern age. I'm not sure which path is worse, your suggestion or the status quo.

Something will have to give at some point. I remember someone at HN posting a graph that showed that for something like 40 years the amount of singles reporting 'no sex within the last year' had been relatively equal (both men and women around 18%), but since the rise of Tinder et al men had shot up to 30% whereas women were still at 18%. On an individual level I won't pass judgment on women for doing whatever they w…

> Something will have to give at some point.

Care to place any bets on what will happen?

Obviously I can't prove this but I'd bet the inability to get into an emotionally stable (or any) relationship is one of the contributing factors to soaring youth crime across the world. It's not the only one (economy, political divide) but it's a biggie.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#470
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something will have to give at some point. I remember someone at HN posting a graph that showed that for something like 40 years the amount of singles reporting 'no sex within the last year' had been relatively equal (both men and women around 18%), but since the rise of Tinder et al men had shot up to 30% whereas women were still at 18%. On an individual level I won't pass judgment on women for doing whatever they w…

> Something will have to give at some point. Care to place any bets on what will happen? Obviously I can't prove this but I'd bet the inability to get into an emotionally stable (or any) relationship is one of the contributing factors to soaring youth crime across the world. It's not the only one (economy, political divide) but it's a biggie.

> Obviously I can't prove this but I'd bet the inability to get into an emotionally stable (or any) relationship is one of the contributing factors to soaring youth crime across the world.

I can do you one better: if you look at history, whenever a society had large contingents of single, young men with little chance of entering into a relationship, that society invariably eventually went to war. Since most big players in the world have become so economically intertwined this is not really viable anymore, so yes, I'd say it is very possibly a factor.

> Care to place any bets on what will happen?

On the short-to-mid term? Nothing. Tech is vastly outpacing our ability as society to adapt. You see this with issues of privacy as well.

Long term? The pendulum probably swings in the other direction hard. Maybe men everywhere decide to adopt the Japanese way: with the insane pressure on young men there to perform in all aspects of life, a lot of them simply opt out of dating (which ultimately leaves women without relationships). Or maybe realistic, AI-driven sexbots become a thing: if you don't want kids and don't need a relationship, why deal with all the extraneous stuff? This again leaves women out in the cold.

To be clear: I wouldn't celebrate such a thing. We'd lose something very essential about ourselves if our whole dance of courtship and sex is permanently reduced to dating apps and sexbots.

But to continue, we're in a weird state of flux vis-à-vis male/female interaction. For example, most women prefer to date 'up' (having a good job on your dating profile leads to something like 85% more right swipes), but at the same time most universities are 40/60 men/women, plus women below 30 outearn their male peers. Obviously those two things are fairly at odds with each other.

You can also ask questions like: why are high schools still plastered in posters encouraging women to attend university when the numbers are already skewed? Surely, if back in the 90s 60/40 men/women was bad, the reverse should also be bad? Where is the promotional material to get more men into universities? Where are the special men-only scholarships? Or the effort to combat the male pay gap below 30?

Apologies for the long response- the overarching subject is something I take quite to heart.

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