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Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

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Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#201

Post by ceejayoz »

slfnflctd wrote: post #197
ceejayoz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe a better question is who would benefit from Juul failing? Public health?

It has been proven over and over again that when you ban an addictive substance, the black market and similar-but-still-legal options will rush in to fill the void. Pushing for transparency, research and more data so adults can make better informed decisions about what to do with their own bodies is the answer. Treating adults like children who aren't mature enough to make their own decisions is not.

The massive, decades-long decline in tobacco usage, particularly amongst young people, serves as a strong and highly relevant counterpoint.

Restrictions on advertising, access, and efforts to increase the cost etc. have been quite effective there.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#202

Post by decebalus1 »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #67
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been addicted to tobacco but I used to vape heavily in HS & currently on/off (my friend brings his vape(s) over, etc). I've never experienced anything to the extent you describe. I can definiently feel a desire, in that, I would rather be vaping vs not but not the the point that I've actually filled up any of my personal vapes recenctly or bought a new device. It's well known that the other chemicals in to…

Nicotine is itself a carcinogen. But in general, smokeless tobacco products (including vaping) are much less damaging to your health than smoking.

> Nicotine is itself a carcinogen.

No, no it's not. It's a teratogen.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#203

Post by treebeard901 »

Meanwhile, The stock prospects for the traditional big tobacco companies are going up.

Guess what it does to their value after getting an entire generation hooked on vaping nicotine for a decade, then for a brief time remove all flavors but the ones you can find in traditional cigarettes, then once people switch to tobacco and menthol only, remove e-cigarettes entirely. The only option is traditional cigarettes or not smoking at that point. If it was easy to quit, we would’ve never had a need to create e-cigarettes to begin with.

It’s completely evil any way you look at it.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#205

Post by [deleted] »

Kudos wrote: post #130
morpheuskafka wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a 19-year old investor/employee at a tobacco company isn't illegal. Not really sure what the prosecutors could glean from this in terms of hard evidence of a crime.

> Not really sure what the prosecutors could glean from this in terms of hard evidence of a crime. That's why it's called an investigation, you follow leads not knowing whether they will pay off.

[deleted]

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#206

Post by moosey »

ganitarashid wrote: post #116

Vaping under 18, I get it, you’re young and dumb and succumbed to peer pressure. It happened to the best of us. But vaping after 30? It’s like they’re saying: Hey I want you to take me seriously while I am willfully destroying my body in front of you. If you don’t care about yourself, you can’t be trusted to care about anything.

How hyperbolic. Everyone is on a health continuum, and I know people who are incredibly active, informed and intelligent, and further with healthy who use a variety of drugs recreationally, including nicotine.

Many people use these things because their concept of well being differs from yours, and not every in an individualistic way (like antivaxx). There are a number of benefits to nicotine and if it can be taken safely then all the better.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#207

Post by paulcole »

colechristensen wrote: post #93
sbilstein wrote: post #44

One thing that gets lost in Juul and vaping supporters is just how bad nicotine addiction is for your personal life. I recently quit nicotine a few months ago and it made a big difference for me. Nicotine withdrawal kicks in very quick which is why smokers take constant breaks. The anxiety, the grumpiness, irritability and anger you feel as a smoker when you are without nicotine will piss off your partner, make you s…

It comes down to personality and biochemistry, not everyone is that hooked on the stuff. If you ban everything that is addictive you end up doing a disservice to people who can handle the substance or item in question. Banning addictive substances because some people can't handle them goes against my philosophy of the purpose of government. Do we need some kind of super-citizen test where you have to prove your knowl…

> I don't want a nanny state that bans what it thinks is bad for me and prevents me from accessing things that I want because some people can't handle it.

Show me a one-armed guy who bought a stick of dynamite thinking, “No way can I handle this.”

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#208

Post by girvo »

sbilstein wrote: post #143
dilap wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, going out on breaks w/ people to smoke or vape can be a great social enhancement. Made at least one great friend this way. Also how my mom met my dad. Still trying to think up a good replacement for this...

If you are trying to quit, which it sounds like you are not, you have to unlearn this aspect of smoking. Obviously as a smoker, I loved doing that! It's just not good for your health or happiness. I was especially worried whenever I was going back to the bar/restaurant/office wondering if I smell too much like cigarettes

> I was especially worried whenever I was going back to the bar/restaurant/office wondering if I smell too much like cigarettes

As someone who quit cigarettes 5 years ago, but still chews 2mg gum (12 of them per day, about), you did for sure heh. Wasn't until I stopped smoking that I realised how bad it smelled.

Also how good food tastes when I could taste stuff properly again!

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#209

Post by girvo »

codr7 wrote: post #183
TeMPOraL wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because of this list of research papers collected by Gwern claiming that nicotine alone doesn't have strong addictive properties (not beyond caffeine level): https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness . Apparently in most popular, educational and health-related communication, nicotine is treated as synonym to tobacco, leading to confusion.

I've smoked tobacco for 30-ish years. Organic, additive-free tobacco is definitely less problematic for me. Lately I've been growing my own Nicotiana Rustica [0], which contains plenty more nicotine than regular tobacco but is nowhere near as addictive. I know what I would do if I was selling drugs and didn't give a crap about anything but profits, I would make them as addictive as possible. [0] https://en.wikipedia.…

How do you find the Rustica? I wanted to have a crack at growing it in my entheogen garden

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#210

Post by dilap »

sbilstein wrote: post #143
dilap wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, going out on breaks w/ people to smoke or vape can be a great social enhancement. Made at least one great friend this way. Also how my mom met my dad. Still trying to think up a good replacement for this...

If you are trying to quit, which it sounds like you are not, you have to unlearn this aspect of smoking. Obviously as a smoker, I loved doing that! It's just not good for your health or happiness. I was especially worried whenever I was going back to the bar/restaurant/office wondering if I smell too much like cigarettes

I agree -- on balance, smoking is not worth it, at least not regularly.

So I basically never smoke cigarettes anymore, and Juul only occasionally.

Still, I miss it...

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