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Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

wsj.com

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Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#81

Post by brianwawok »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #67
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been addicted to tobacco but I used to vape heavily in HS & currently on/off (my friend brings his vape(s) over, etc). I've never experienced anything to the extent you describe. I can definiently feel a desire, in that, I would rather be vaping vs not but not the the point that I've actually filled up any of my personal vapes recenctly or bought a new device. It's well known that the other chemicals in to…

Nicotine is itself a carcinogen. But in general, smokeless tobacco products (including vaping) are much less damaging to your health than smoking.

Do we know the 30 year effects of say being a heavy Juul user? It's hard to compare damage of something that has been out for 100s of years vs something that has only been out for a few years.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#82

Post by [deleted] »

jMyles wrote: post #68
paxys wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public health and youth health is always a high priority issue.

If that were true, we'd be talking exclusively about cars, opioid drugs, suicide, and gang violence. All other causes of death are rounding errors for this age group.

[deleted]

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#83

Post by kube-system »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #67
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been addicted to tobacco but I used to vape heavily in HS & currently on/off (my friend brings his vape(s) over, etc). I've never experienced anything to the extent you describe. I can definiently feel a desire, in that, I would rather be vaping vs not but not the the point that I've actually filled up any of my personal vapes recenctly or bought a new device. It's well known that the other chemicals in to…

Nicotine is itself a carcinogen. But in general, smokeless tobacco products (including vaping) are much less damaging to your health than smoking.

I don't think nicotine has been shown to be carcinogenic in humans, although there's plenty of other bad things it does.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#84

Post by paggle »

jMyles wrote: post #64
archie2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government is vast, and can handle more than one issue at once...

I don't know that the evidence - especially in recent history - really supports this conclusion very strongly. At a minimum, it's probably reasonable to say that political capital is real, and selecting an issue to work on (either in the executive branch or more commonly in Congress) does indeed have costs that impair effort on other issues.

Luckily a Juul prosecution requires little political capital, since the value of political capital has gone to nearly zero as the elected part of the federal government has tumbled into complete dysfunction.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#85

Post by jacobolus »

navd wrote: post #72
TeMPOraL wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have nicotine, then who cares either? Nicotine is addictive when combined with other substances in regular cigarettes. Not as a stand-alone chemical. (Of course avoiding getting any kind of particulate in your lungs is better than getting it.)

I'm not sure why I see this popping up throughout the comments. Nicotine BY ITSELF is extremely addictive.

Nicotine by itself doesn’t seem categorically different than caffeine (coffee, tea, yerba mate, guarana, ...) or other stimulants (khat, coca leaves, ginseng, cinnamon, ...). Yes these are generally addictive, but not necessarily life ruining. Dosage, frequency of use, etc. matters a lot.

Frequent long-term use of any stimulant is probably not great for you; e.g. my mother has a pretty severe coffee addiction (she typically drinks 4–8 cups per day), and gets headaches and shakes if she goes a couple days without. But compared to other kinds of drugs, it doesn’t seem like such a huge public health threat that we should freak out about it.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#86

Post by jMyles »

jakeinspace wrote: post #78
jMyles wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that the evidence - especially in recent history - really supports this conclusion very strongly. At a minimum, it's probably reasonable to say that political capital is real, and selecting an issue to work on (either in the executive branch or more commonly in Congress) does indeed have costs that impair effort on other issues.

What political capital? Federal prosecutors and the FDA have limited resources, of course, but I don't think this issue is preventing Congress or the White House of pursuing more pressing issues.

Well, political capital is a two-way street; it comes in debts and credits. Dealing with statistical non-issues like this only allows the DoJ (and perhaps, to a lesser extent, the FTC, which is also named in this article as part of the investigation) to claim to be doing something, while the real issues go unresolved.

The auto industry and the pharma industry, whose products kill huge numbers of kids, and who have both repeatedly taken actions in pursuit of profit without regard for the health and safety effects of those decisions, never seem to face any serious, lasting consequences.

The "rash of injuries and deaths" link in the article is a 404, but let's assume they are talking about the six deaths over the past two-and-a-half years. During that same time, 30,000 people have died from opiod overdose and 70,000 have died from MV traffic.

This is a distraction, and not even a convincing one.

Our public lawyers, lawmakers, regulators, and consumer advocates are spending their time and resources focused on really stupid things as a way not to have to talk about real life.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#87

Post by neogodless »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #65
webkike wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. They taste better 2. Yes, they are easier to get, for a couple reasons: once you have a juul you only need juul pods, and additionally you don't need to purchase a lighter (which you need to be over eighteen a lot of places to purchase). edit 3. They are far more discreet (you can vape in a classroom if you are in the back and it is dark) and deliver more nicotine.

Just FYI, you're looking for "discreet".

I always think, "the two letter 'e's are discrete from each other, but the two letter 'e's hide away discreetly." Or something like that. It works, I swear!

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#88

Post by TeMPOraL »

navd wrote: post #72
TeMPOraL wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have nicotine, then who cares either? Nicotine is addictive when combined with other substances in regular cigarettes. Not as a stand-alone chemical. (Of course avoiding getting any kind of particulate in your lungs is better than getting it.)

I'm not sure why I see this popping up throughout the comments. Nicotine BY ITSELF is extremely addictive.

Maybe because of this list of research papers collected by Gwern claiming that nicotine alone doesn't have strong addictive properties (not beyond caffeine level):

https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness.

Apparently in most popular, educational and health-related communication, nicotine is treated as synonym to tobacco, leading to confusion.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#89

Post by inimino »

jMyles wrote: post #68
paxys wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public health and youth health is always a high priority issue.

If that were true, we'd be talking exclusively about cars, opioid drugs, suicide, and gang violence. All other causes of death are rounding errors for this age group.

The thing about this age group is they grow up.
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