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The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

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Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#61

It can be quite a minefield. I worked with a guy whose chit-chat policy was disconcerting - stating the bleedin' obvious. "You are in early today!" "You are in late today!" "You are on time today!" "Wearing the red shirt again, I see!" "Got your hair cut!" While this 'say what you see' served as a functional ice-breaker, as an introvert I found it strangely confrontational, almost like an interrogation. I felt like I…

I try to deflect these types of statement with humor when possible. Comments about time are meet with the Gandalf quote, "A wizard is never late, [...] nor is he early; he arrives precisely when he means to." "Got a hair cut?" "Nope, I got all of them cut."

Yes, but then you are somewhat assuming the mantle of the resident stand-up comedian, might be hard to live up to!

(Funny enough, I did brainstorm solutions as thought experiments. The one I saw working was to mercilessly point out what he was doing, every time he did it. "A-ha! Captain Obvious speaks!" "Got any obvious observations for me today?". But that would have been staggeringly cruel, after all the poor guy was only trying to be friendly!)

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#62
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an art to presenting vulnerability; to not diminish yourself whilst doing so. It not only improves your own outlook on yourself but helps prevent others using it against you, all whilst still being open and truthful. Its hard.

Could you give an example? The most popular trust-creation mechanism for adults seems to be getting drunk together, which reliably leads to little infractions, which every witness has the choice to exploit or not. The latter option engenders trust. "I don't trust someone that I didn't get drunk with" is a sentiment I've heard repeatedly, both privately and professionally. The most successful startup that I worked for…

My answer to that question: "Whiskey"

As to the drinking after work... I think it's appropriate to set boundaries. I only drink a handful of times a year but will participate in some activities including outside work hours, I also don't have more than a single drink if I'm going to drive within a couple hours. Also, get two non-alcoholic drinks or glasses of water per alcoholic beverage, could pretty much stay close to sober all evening when I was in my 20s by doing that.

In the end, it's about striking a balance of being sociable without being irresponsible at the same time.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#63
post #22

Relationships develop through the escalating exchange of mutual vulnerability. A few people commented that I seemed to make friends very easily, so I started paying attention to my interactions with strangers. I noticed that I enjoyed sharing vulnerable anecdotes with people before inquiring about their own, e.g. dates gone wrong from the night before. Sure, sometimes I put my foot in my mouth, but people seem to lik…

One of the best way to make coworkers friends is to talk about drugs you’ve done. Now that you have mutual comprimate it will be very difficult for one of you to fuck the other without it backfiring. Another good way is to hang out with the smokers, even if you don’t smoke. I’ve noticed that people smoking together is a nexus of power, especially if a higher up or the CEO does it.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#64
post #29
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Indeed, this is a very good way to put it. Although I do understand people who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought - they value fun…

Thanks for this. This has become a realization of mine in the past couple of years. I already wear a neat shirt to work and do my hair neatly, because that's expected. I'm not going to change my personality however, because I am who I am and I don't want to pretend to be something I'm not. I've even decided that I will no longer 'perform' interviews. I could get most jobs, because I'm pretty good at doing interviews.…

I've been doing the same. I even tell recruiters and interviewers "if I was unemployed, you'd be getting a very different version of me". It adds more fuel to the notion of why employed people are so much better to recruit, because you get more signal and less noise.

We've all known for a while that being unemployed, and having that desperation stink on you, is a bad situation. But I'd never really considered it from the hiring side, that when you are interviewing someone who desperately needs a job, you're interviewing more of an actor.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#65
post #59

My goto topics for office chitchat are TV shows, video games, and sports in that order. Most people have at least some show they watch and will talk about, and others typically have a video game of some sort they play. Sports used to be first, but I've run into many people who have zero interest or knowledge in any sport personal or otherwise. Topics I love to talk about but avoid, diet and exercise. Topics I avoid c…

I'd add religion to the topics to avoid, too :)

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#66
post #45

I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Better pay attention to appearances when you're at work. I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought, or tho…

> I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought I'm such a coworker. Two reasons I do this: 1. I don't care about "upward mobility". 2. People don't see me as a threat to theirs, which is a good thing, because you don't want an overly ambitious junior developer trying to prove his(or hers) worth by picking on you. Reason 0. is that weirdly enough it's good to appear som…

> weirdly enough it's good to appear somewhat "incompetent", but still in reality be able to deliver

How so? To maintain lower expectations & set yourself up to surprise people positively?

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#67
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give an example? The most popular trust-creation mechanism for adults seems to be getting drunk together, which reliably leads to little infractions, which every witness has the choice to exploit or not. The latter option engenders trust. "I don't trust someone that I didn't get drunk with" is a sentiment I've heard repeatedly, both privately and professionally. The most successful startup that I worked for…

My answer to that question: "Whiskey" As to the drinking after work... I think it's appropriate to set boundaries. I only drink a handful of times a year but will participate in some activities including outside work hours, I also don't have more than a single drink if I'm going to drive within a couple hours. Also, get two non-alcoholic drinks or glasses of water per alcoholic beverage, could pretty much stay close…

I agree with you, in that pretending to drink (e.g Tonic instead of Gin & Tonic) is probably what a lot of us do, and the obvious way out. But the point of drinking is not really being sociable, but making yourself vulnerable. Vulnerability and exploitability is the foundation of trust. By staying sober one undermines one of the core trust formation mechanism: by remaining sober and responsible, you avoid creating exploitable vulnerabilities that others can but don't exploit -- I trust X because X can exploit my being vulnerable w.r.t. Y me, but doesn't.

Note also that pretending to drink feels a bit like cheating to me: I'm actively deceiving others. I wish I could live my life without deceit.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#68
post #27
post #7

I am rubbish at small talk. For one I'm not really that interested in other people, and secondly I find it really boring. As such, all jobs I've had as a permanent employee, I've found myself completely stymied when it came to career progression, despite always having very good performance reviews. It very clear to me, that the people who float to the top of organisations, don't do it via their work performance, but…

The people who at the top of the organization generally manage other people. No offence, but if you're not interested in people, or at least in learning to fake it, how do you expect to manage them?

It's really sad how people care much more about how you flap your gums at them than what you can do for them. Who cares if your pipes are burst, let's talk about it rather than actually fixing the damn thing! Who cares if it's dark, let's talk about light bulbs rather than install some!

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#69
post #22

Relationships develop through the escalating exchange of mutual vulnerability. A few people commented that I seemed to make friends very easily, so I started paying attention to my interactions with strangers. I noticed that I enjoyed sharing vulnerable anecdotes with people before inquiring about their own, e.g. dates gone wrong from the night before. Sure, sometimes I put my foot in my mouth, but people seem to lik…

There is an art to presenting vulnerability; to not diminish yourself whilst doing so. It not only improves your own outlook on yourself but helps prevent others using it against you, all whilst still being open and truthful. Its hard.

The strongest model I have for understanding the world is that your prefrontal cortex is a simulator that is always predicting. When something occurs that surprises you (like a glass breaking in a restaurant), the anomaly diverts your attention to the sound source so your visual system can feed more data to your model and rationalise the event.

But when something happens that contradicts your model, it means your model is wrong, and this causes severe anxiety (cognitive dissonance). This explains why people get more upset when things don't go the way they expect than whether or not things go badly or well, which is why managing expectations is such a high priority for project managers. It also explains why autistic people who struggle to abstract and get upset by social disappointment rock themselves: to create a signal they can predict. Otherwise, the bottom of your world falls out every time someone moves their cheese - like a baby throwing a tantrum when they drop their favourite toy before they have a model of gravity.

Now, why would people want to get drunk together? I think we want to test congruence and resilience in a vulnerable situation. The better a person can predict your social cooperation in a variety of contexts, the less bandwidth they can afford to devote to modelling your actions, which might otherwise pose an existential threat. Once you have mutually compatible models of cooperation, you can safely turn your backs to each other and work on solving external problems without causing internal anxiety.

But being predictable also means you are vulnerable. If you can be modelled, you can be manipulated. So we crave a certain "predictable chaos" from our friends, partners and co-workers. We want someone self-aware enough to follow the rules, while pleasantly surprising us in ways that expand our mental territory without invalidating too much of the existing foundation. A quick way to upset a drinker is to turn down free drinks at a bar at night (but not in the middle of the day). It forces them to re-evaluate their model of the world - and, people hate doing that, especially drunk people. The same is true of questioning people's religion.

Incidentally, this is also why you dream and have nightmares, and seek out horror movies when things feel stagnant. Your mind is exploring your survivability in a bunch of threatening situations that could arise, and learning from them without dying.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#70

The vast majority of office chitchat is like a carrier wave in radio. It doesn't transmit much information other than I am a normal human who you can turn to when it is needed. There is a fair amount of politics etc that is conveyed more through body language and dominance dynamics rather than the actual words exchanged.

Except they don't care about you. Someone could burst through the door and skin you alive, but your coworkers won't be in the least bit perturbed unless:

1) Your mutilation was against company policy 2) Some bits of you got on their shirt.

Personally, I'd much rather deal with people knives drawn rather than work hard pretending to care if each other lives or dies.

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