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The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

nytimes.com

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Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#21

Post by gil »

not_a_moth wrote: post #11

I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Better pay attention to appearances when you're at work. I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought, or tho…

> I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader.

Indeed, this is a very good way to put it. Although I do understand people who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought - they value fun and genuine social interactions more than "upward mobility".

If you can't be yourself for at least 8h/day and you also can't be yourself after that, because you shouldn't base you social life around your co-workers, then who are you? And when are you allowed to be yourself? Weekends and bank holidays? Fuck. That.

We would all be happier if we were allowed to be ourselves all the time. Maybe by hopping around until landing on a cluster of likewise co-workers who can see the "high quality professional" side by side with the crazy cat lady or the punkrocker.

But again, I think your decription is correct and that we live within a very sad state of affairs.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#22

Post by pgt »

Relationships develop through the escalating exchange of mutual vulnerability. A few people commented that I seemed to make friends very easily, so I started paying attention to my interactions with strangers. I noticed that I enjoyed sharing vulnerable anecdotes with people before inquiring about their own, e.g. dates gone wrong from the night before. Sure, sometimes I put my foot in my mouth, but people seem to like that and trust me more for it. When I started researching how friendships are forged, this was on the button.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#23

Post by [deleted] »

pgt wrote: post #22

Relationships develop through the escalating exchange of mutual vulnerability. A few people commented that I seemed to make friends very easily, so I started paying attention to my interactions with strangers. I noticed that I enjoyed sharing vulnerable anecdotes with people before inquiring about their own, e.g. dates gone wrong from the night before. Sure, sometimes I put my foot in my mouth, but people seem to lik…

[deleted]

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#24

Post by distant_hat »

The vast majority of office chitchat is like a carrier wave in radio. It doesn't transmit much information other than I am a normal human who you can turn to when it is needed. There is a fair amount of politics etc that is conveyed more through body language and dominance dynamics rather than the actual words exchanged.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#25

Post by close04 »

hrktb wrote: post #17
ketzo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you’re saying, and I don’t think you’re entirely wrong — you build trust by doing your job well, repeatedly. But it’s also a demonstrated fact (and almost a tautology) that people trust people that they like, and chit-chat is a great way to move from “stranger” to “friendly acquaintance.” If you eat lunch with someone once a week, they’ll think you’re better at your job. That’s not an anecdote, that’s a re…

You are completely right, for all our history of working in the same buildings, in person. This changes though when you move to different floors. At some point you might be working more with someone that is on the other side of the street that the person next to you. Will you trust them less because you don't see them everyday ? Will you be worse at your job because of the lack of chit-chatting ? Perhaps, but it's so…

The cherry on top doesn't make a difference between 2 otherwise identical pieces of crap (or shouldn't, at least...). But it will make a difference between 2 otherwise identical cakes.

Chit chat is also a form of self promotion or publicity. People are more likely to notice you delivered instead of "it was delivered" if they know you. Don't rely exclusively on your immediate manager to promote you to everyone else. They may not have the time for that and it's unlikely they'll say "John/Jane delivered" if nobody around knows who those people are.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#26

Post by lnsru »

Baeocystin wrote: post #9
lnsru wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I work, chitchat during lunch break is main communication bus. Since I am preparing my food at home, I don’t go to the canteen and I am the black sheep in the office. I am the last one to get the news. It’s seriously wrong, because there are no written agreements at all.

...so go to the canteen anyway and talk while you eat together? I can think of plenty of times where a shared lunch with some co-workers was a mix of people bringing food and buying from the cafe. Having agreements in writing is important for reference. Being present for their creation (and therefore having a say as it takes shape) is worth it.

You are right, I should do it. It’s very important to participate in office politics and decision making process. I think, other companies have separate meetings for this. But I am not going to stay here for 5 years.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#27

Post by thefj »

Jaruzel wrote: post #7

I am rubbish at small talk. For one I'm not really that interested in other people, and secondly I find it really boring. As such, all jobs I've had as a permanent employee, I've found myself completely stymied when it came to career progression, despite always having very good performance reviews. It very clear to me, that the people who float to the top of organisations, don't do it via their work performance, but…

The people who at the top of the organization generally manage other people.

No offence, but if you're not interested in people, or at least in learning to fake it, how do you expect to manage them?

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#28

Post by close04 »

gil wrote: post #21
not_a_moth wrote: post #11

I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Better pay attention to appearances when you're at work. I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought, or tho…

> I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Indeed, this is a very good way to put it. Although I do understand people who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought - they value fun…

Saying objectively stupid or offensive stuff without reading the room is a bad idea wherever you are. But people already treat family, friends, coworkers differently, with different topics of discussion and jokes. So you have a different "face" or "recipe" for each of them anyway.

And small talk might actually help your chances of upward mobility since people start being aware of your name. They know you delivered something. Your superiors are more likely to mention that and you if people in the room know who you are than if you're "a resource".

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#29

Post by donkeyd »

gil wrote: post #21
not_a_moth wrote: post #11

I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Better pay attention to appearances when you're at work. I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought, or tho…

> I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Indeed, this is a very good way to put it. Although I do understand people who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought - they value fun…

Thanks for this. This has become a realization of mine in the past couple of years. I already wear a neat shirt to work and do my hair neatly, because that's expected. I'm not going to change my personality however, because I am who I am and I don't want to pretend to be something I'm not.

I've even decided that I will no longer 'perform' interviews. I could get most jobs, because I'm pretty good at doing interviews. However, I've come to the conclusion that I should just be me and if they don't like it, there isn't a fit. Recently got my first rejection because of this and I didn't mind as much as I thought I would. Of course, exceptions will be made when I really need a job. But as long as the market is on my side, I'll just keep being myself.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#30

Post by thefz »

not_a_moth wrote: post #11

I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Better pay attention to appearances when you're at work. I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought, or tho…

> I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader.

I've also found that letting out the least amount of personal information possible disarms those that to climb the ladder exploit and set people against each other.

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