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The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

nytimes.com

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Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#41

Post by Jaruzel »

thefj wrote: post #27
Jaruzel wrote: post #7

I am rubbish at small talk. For one I'm not really that interested in other people, and secondly I find it really boring. As such, all jobs I've had as a permanent employee, I've found myself completely stymied when it came to career progression, despite always having very good performance reviews. It very clear to me, that the people who float to the top of organisations, don't do it via their work performance, but…

The people who at the top of the organization generally manage other people. No offence, but if you're not interested in people, or at least in learning to fake it, how do you expect to manage them?

I never said I wanted to manage people. I was merely making an observation. In the past, I have been a senior people manager, and hated it.

What I wanted was to progress my career based on my skillset. However, without 'people skills' it's impossible to progress in any large organisation.

These days, I stick to contracting. Zero people skills required, and I can avoid all the office bullsh*t without issue.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#42

Post by bmmayer1 »

Jaruzel wrote: post #7

I am rubbish at small talk. For one I'm not really that interested in other people, and secondly I find it really boring. As such, all jobs I've had as a permanent employee, I've found myself completely stymied when it came to career progression, despite always having very good performance reviews. It very clear to me, that the people who float to the top of organisations, don't do it via their work performance, but…

It seems to me that you're undervaluing the value and importance of social and emotional connection with other people when it comes to getting work done effectively in an organization. Companies are like any other groups of people, and leaders -- i.e., people who "float to the top" -- need to be able to understand and motivate people, be widely liked and respected, command respect and authority from the company at large, as well as other managers and the higher ups.

Dismissing this critical skill as "slapping each other on the back" and contrasting it to "work performance" shows that you may be dismissing a key skillset that is necessary to move up, if that is something you want to do.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#43

Post by partisan »

nvarsj wrote: post #18
Jaruzel wrote: post #7

I am rubbish at small talk. For one I'm not really that interested in other people, and secondly I find it really boring. As such, all jobs I've had as a permanent employee, I've found myself completely stymied when it came to career progression, despite always having very good performance reviews. It very clear to me, that the people who float to the top of organisations, don't do it via their work performance, but…

I used to think much like you do. But as I’ve moved into leadership positions I’ve changed my view entirely. That sharing a pint or two is important. To be able to coordinate a group of people to reach a goal, soft skills are absolutely vital. Humans aren’t machines - hacking humans is a different skill, and being good at it is rarer than good engineers imo. That’s why it pays well, and why you’ll never progress far…

IC?

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#44

Post by jpe-210 »

Jaruzel wrote: post #7

I am rubbish at small talk. For one I'm not really that interested in other people, and secondly I find it really boring. As such, all jobs I've had as a permanent employee, I've found myself completely stymied when it came to career progression, despite always having very good performance reviews. It very clear to me, that the people who float to the top of organisations, don't do it via their work performance, but…

It seems like such a rude thing to feel, but I too struggle with actually taking interest in what my coworkers think. Is this what happens when you begin to see a different generation enter the workforce? I'm not too much older but I'm not their age, so the divide seems to be forming ever so slowly.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#45

Post by Tade0 »

not_a_moth wrote: post #11

I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Better pay attention to appearances when you're at work. I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought, or tho…

> I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought

I'm such a coworker. Two reasons I do this:

1. I don't care about "upward mobility".

2. People don't see me as a threat to theirs, which is a good thing, because you don't want an overly ambitious junior developer trying to prove his(or hers) worth by picking on you.

Reason 0. is that weirdly enough it's good to appear somewhat "incompetent", but still in reality be able to deliver.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#46

Post by hrktb »

close04 wrote: post #25
hrktb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely right, for all our history of working in the same buildings, in person. This changes though when you move to different floors. At some point you might be working more with someone that is on the other side of the street that the person next to you. Will you trust them less because you don't see them everyday ? Will you be worse at your job because of the lack of chit-chatting ? Perhaps, but it's so…

The cherry on top doesn't make a difference between 2 otherwise identical pieces of crap (or shouldn't, at least...). But it will make a difference between 2 otherwise identical cakes. Chit chat is also a form of self promotion or publicity. People are more likely to notice you delivered instead of "it was delivered" if they know you . Don't rely exclusively on your immediate manager to promote you to everyone else.…

> it will make a difference between 2 otherwise identical cakes.

If we go into "all else equal" territory, you could get a promotion and not neighbour because you created your dog an instagram account that your boss likes.

Or you could have built a Minecraft world that was pretty cool when your coworkers checked it from one of your sns profiles.

Or you could be the only one not annoying your boss all day long, and they show their appreciation on bonus day.

Or your release announcement mails have funny gifs.

Or your have a name that's easily remembered.

Or really anything. I think the goal to build trust and reputation is for things to not be equal and not have to play weird games of popularity.

Don't get me wrong, communication is key, but chit chat is a single very specific form of communication, among so many others.

I think in any decent organisation you get better ROI from having good written communication than top of the game chitchat, if you had to focus your attention somewhere. If chitchat is an important part of your professional life, I hope it's by choice and you're not just stuck in a company you hate.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#47

Post by liveoneggs »

not_a_moth wrote: post #11

I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Better pay attention to appearances when you're at work. I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought, or tho…

weird- my observation is that people who "get ahead" (into middle management) tend to be unconcerned with what they say at the lunch table (unless someone two+ levels in attending).

In fact they are often highly inappropriate because it will lead others to say bad stuff, meaning gossip they can share with their chosen handler, who can then use that gossip against others to promote themselves and bring their lackey along for the ride.

Maybe we've worked in different environments. :)

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#48

Post by Loq »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #40
pgt wrote: post #22

Relationships develop through the escalating exchange of mutual vulnerability. A few people commented that I seemed to make friends very easily, so I started paying attention to my interactions with strangers. I noticed that I enjoyed sharing vulnerable anecdotes with people before inquiring about their own, e.g. dates gone wrong from the night before. Sure, sometimes I put my foot in my mouth, but people seem to lik…

There is an art to presenting vulnerability; to not diminish yourself whilst doing so. It not only improves your own outlook on yourself but helps prevent others using it against you, all whilst still being open and truthful. Its hard.

Could you give an example?

The most popular trust-creation mechanism for adults seems to be getting drunk together, which reliably leads to little infractions, which every witness has the choice to exploit or not. The latter option engenders trust.

"I don't trust someone that I didn't get drunk with" is a sentiment I've heard repeatedly, both privately and professionally. The most successful startup that I worked for even asked "What's your favourite beer?" when they interviewed me for a programmer position, and when I asked by this was of interest, they said they took their after work drinking sessions pretty seriously, and "don't want to work with people they can't have fun with". As somebody who doesn't enjoy being drunk, this was difficult for me to adapt to.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#49

Post by disposedtrolley »

partisan wrote: post #43
nvarsj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think much like you do. But as I’ve moved into leadership positions I’ve changed my view entirely. That sharing a pint or two is important. To be able to coordinate a group of people to reach a goal, soft skills are absolutely vital. Humans aren’t machines - hacking humans is a different skill, and being good at it is rarer than good engineers imo. That’s why it pays well, and why you’ll never progress far…

IC?

Individual Contributor I believe, ie someone who doesn’t have direct reports

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#50

Post by gexla »

Smalltalk is improv. It's yes... and. You take turns with the hot potato. You take your turn and then pass it. It's creating a story. Take whatever what was passed to you, add something quirky and then pass it back. It's fun to add something off the wall, a bit ridiculous.

Doing this takes courage. You WILL make mistakes. At times, you may cringe at yourself. Putting yourself out there, taking small risks is the spice of life. When you fail, embrace it and move on. Don't look back.

If you smile and keep a bright attitude, then that becomes infectious. If showing up is 90%, then the right attitude is showing up. The quickest way to screw this up is to be toxic.

Advanced mode is keeping that positive attitude (don't forget the smile) even when you're feeling attacked. If you can't bear it, then keep a number of exit strategies in your bag of tricks and pull one of them. You have to get going. Someone is expecting you. You need to take a call, etc. If you choose to stay, then you have to stay deft and keep the air light. Don't let someone pin you down into a corner where you have to defend yourself. Continue keeping things light and a bit ridiculous and the air will change. You might even gain some respect.

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