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Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

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Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#101

Post by Gibbon1 »

notJim wrote: post #79

All the negativity is overlooking that this is a really exciting time for electric cars, IMO. Aside from price, Tesla is still by far the best option around as far as I can tell, but it's exciting that there are so many new cars coming out. An electric car doesn't quite work for me right now because of the limited charging options, but it seems like that's going to change rapidly.

Starting a few years ago industrial/automotive electronic manufacturers started heavily marketing stuff for electric cars and 'smart car' electronics. Before that the industry was slightly sleepy.

EV's mean a total rethinking of just about everything automotive.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#102

Post by m463 »

herodotus wrote: post #46

> The central focus is a new 10-inch touchscreen that sits in the middle of the ID.3’s dashboard. But VW has also opted to rely on touch-sensitive buttons throughout the cabin. In fact, the only things that are controlled through physical buttons, VW says, are the windows and the hazard lights. I don't understand why big touch screens in cars are seen as a step forward. To me, they raise safety issues, and they lack…

At least vw offers a dashboard AND the option of a Heads Up display.

The lack of a dashboard (in the line of sight) is the reason I did not buy a model 3.

I actually like the large display in portrait mode in the model S. I do not like the UI though. You fiddle with controls to the side and down while driving. I cannot imagine the design came from people driving a moving vehicle.

The giant horizontal display in the model 3 is difficult too. The near part of the screen is for speed and other status. So for controls you will be fiddling WAY off to the side.

Maybe with competition all the cars will improve.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#103

Post by Lendal »

nrjames wrote: post #7

All looks good, but the charging rate seems really slow.

Is there any technical reason for limiting the charge rate unless you pay more? I see this is becoming common now. Even Tesla does it.

I'd be willing to settle for the smaller battery as long as charging it was at the same higher rate. Sure, charging sessions are more frequent during long trips, but if you're charging a smaller battery at the same rate then the charging sessions are shorter. So it seems like they're just trying to get more money out of you by limiting the charging rate of the low-end cars.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#104

Post by elihu »

romwell wrote: post #93
Angostura wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m hoping for twisty knobs and flicky switches

They will come. In a the world of music equipment (synths in particular), it went like this: --70s: twisty knobs and flicky switches. --80s: We got CPU's now! Forget knobs, we got button arrays now. --90s: We got LCDs now! Forget buttons, here's one rotary control and menus on menus. --00s: If you pay us a lot, your menus will be on a touchscreen ! Neat? No? .....No? :( --10's: twisty knobs and flicky switches. Walk…

If cars are to follow synthesizers, the next step is a Eurorack-style modular dashboard where you can fit instruments and controls from a wide variety of vendors that adhere to some basic standards and interact mostly via analog voltages.

Re-patching your dash while you're driving is probably taking the metaphor a bit too far, though.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#105

Post by clouddrover »

ganzuul wrote: post #44
pwagland wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that at least part of the lower TCO is due to the fact that they expect the id.3 to retain 43% of value, and the normal golf to retain 33% of value. Setting these to equal eliminates any advantage, either way, the 5 year cost difference is largely a wash out. That different cars retain value differently isn't intrinsically a problem, however assuming a high resale value for an unknown car feels like stacking the…

Regarding long-term value, a bus company here chose to order electric buses in part because they suspect that in the lifetime of a bus, diesel engines could be banned in cities.

That's starting to happen now in Paris: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-paris-pollution/gre...

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#106

Post by beatgammit »

rasz wrote: post #59
mbrumlow wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is a used 10k car will almost always be more cost effective.

Bangeronomics make most sense only if you are willing to work on your own car.

Not really. For $10k, I got a car in really good condition with ~$60k miles, and most cars don't have issues until at least 100k miles, if not closer to 150k miles. My car has ~120k miles right now, and I've done very little aside from getting oil changes and having the factory service around 90k miles.

My car cost ~$20k new, and I could sell it for $3-5k, so I'm already ahead if I sold and bought another $10k car today.

Buying a new car only really makes sense if you're really interested in cutting edge technology or are very particular in the options you want. You can't really get a reasonable electric car used, so new is going to be your best bet there. However, you will pay more than if you buy a quality used car.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#107

Post by Gibbon1 »

pjc50 wrote: post #40
pwagland wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably more than a "few" I think that you will be looking at 5-7 for the cars to fall to under a third of new value. Although that depends on your definition of "a few"* I guess. * https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/05/how-much-is-a-few...

Used Nissan Leaves seem to fall off a cliff. 2016 ones are already visible on ebay for under £10k.

Yeah they have two things not going for them. Limited range and battery degradation issues.

Also EV's tend to have rebates and tax write offs that reduce their actual purchase price significantly. Which probably also depresses resale prices.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#108

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

jmpman wrote: post #68
herodotus wrote: post #46

> The central focus is a new 10-inch touchscreen that sits in the middle of the ID.3’s dashboard. But VW has also opted to rely on touch-sensitive buttons throughout the cabin. In fact, the only things that are controlled through physical buttons, VW says, are the windows and the hazard lights. I don't understand why big touch screens in cars are seen as a step forward. To me, they raise safety issues, and they lack…

I have a Model 3, and ever since I added Alexa Auto, I have no reason to use the touchscreen other than adding a destination to nav. Climate is set to auto. All other configurations automatically switch between my preferences and my wife’s based upon who is in the driver’s seat. I was a skeptic, but now I’m a believer.

You like the touchscreen now that you don't have to use it?

So in your case it wouldn't matter whether there is a touchscreen or not, because you admit to not using it.

There's no reason a car can't have physical buttons and voice control

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#109

Post by Marsymars »

taf2 wrote: post #95
vitaflo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also can't use them with gloves on, and at least where I live, I'm always wearing gloves in the winter.

You can buy touch screen friendly gloves... I always keep a pair in my car... nice thing about an electric car is you pre-heat without burning gas and being generally evil to the environment:)

Those don't work if it's especially cold. Even if cold-weather mitts had capacitive ability, they don't allow enough dexterity to do anything other than mash your hands all over a screen.

I wear these mitts in the winter: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_CA/mens-gloves/merc...

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#110

Post by clouddrover »

sxates wrote: post #89
PorterDuff wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"huge marketing campaign advertising a car that doesn't exist" Perhaps they are trying to gauge the likely success of the car before some final production decisions are made. You do have to wonder how Tesla is going to survive the first surge of practical mass-market electric cars. They definitely are riding some sort of tiger while trying to build out marketshare, technology, infrastructure. My money is on Toyota bu…

Tesla will be fine, for several reasons: 1. They're way ahead of everyone else in terms of energy efficiency. Compare a Model S or X to the Jaguar iPace or Audi e-tron - the Tesla gets 30-50% more range out of the same size battery. That's a big gap. 2. Super chargers - other manufacturers have to rely on really spotty networks of third-party charging stations that are unreliable, and add friction for their customers…

> Tesla will be fine, for several reasons

Tesla will be fine as a niche manufacturer. Jaguar's been around for a long time and they've always been a low volume manufacturer. Tesla can be the same.

> 1. They're way ahead of everyone else in terms of energy efficiency.

The Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro EV, and the Kia Soul EV all achieve good range at a lower price point than Tesla offers.

> 2. Super chargers - other manufacturers have to rely on really spotty networks of third-party charging stations that are unreliable

Ionity in Europe is a joint venture between many manufacturers. Hyundai just recently joined: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-kia-ionity-electr...

Electrify America, EVgo, and ChargePoint now have roaming agreements which simplify charging for their users and makes the separate CCS networks act more like one large CCS network: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/evgo-electrify-america-ch...

Mercedes in Europe has agreements with the European charging networks to allow all charging billing to be done through the owner's Mercedes Me account.

At this point it would be much better if Tesla switched their chargers and cars to CCS instead of persisting with a proprietary plug. If Tesla is interested in promoting EV usage (which they claim is their mission) then they will also allow all EVs to charge at their chargers, just like Teslas can charge at CCS chargers today.

> 3. Tesla actually wants to sell EVs.

Volkswagen has invested more money into EVs than anyone: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-insig...

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