Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s a nice anecdote. The average new car selling price is over $30k (in the US).
I think the point is a used 10k car will almost always be more cost effective.
These might be 10k when you buy them used...
Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car
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Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably more than a "few" I think that you will be looking at 5-7 for the cars to fall to under a third of new value. Although that depends on your definition of "a few"* I guess. * https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/05/how-much-is-a-few...
Conventional wisdom seems to be that at best electric cars will depreciate at the same rate as ICEs or at worst their values will fall off a cliff, the reality is very different, at least in the short run * obviously this will change as production of newer cars ramps up. * https://fullycharged.show/blog/surprisingly-positive-news-on...
The thing I'm curious about is how they will age
I would guess the mechanical components, motors etc will potentially be more reliable than ICE
But I worry about the batteries, if my laptop is anything to go by it seems like they will eventually die and will be expensive to replace
Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
The median figure doesn't exist. I've looked for it for ten years, it never gets reported anywhere. The $34,000 figure (2019) is the average for all new consumer passenger vehicles, including SUVs, trucks (eg F-150), luxury, etc. A typical mass market vehicle will more often be in the $22,000 to $26,000 range. From a Honda Civic around $19k, to high volume trucks around $26k-$32k (all base model prices). The Ford Exp…
At least for Germany, it is pretty much impossible to really know the average price of a new car. This is mostly due to so called "Händlerzulassungen", which means the dealer will actually buy the car, register it for a day, and then sell it as officially "used". This is why at least in the official statistic, only 30% of all new cars in Germany are sold to private citizens. Dealers do this because they are then more…
I don’t think that’s done in the US. At least I’ve never heard of it, and if a dealer tried it with me I’d probably walk out, assuming they were scamming me somehow.
Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car
#44An article comparing the cost of ownership of Volkswagen ID.3 vs. Volkswagen Golf: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/19/volkswagen-id-3-vs-volk... Cost of gas and electricity are based, if I understand correctly, on German prices.
Note that at least part of the lower TCO is due to the fact that they expect the id.3 to retain 43% of value, and the normal golf to retain 33% of value. Setting these to equal eliminates any advantage, either way, the 5 year cost difference is largely a wash out. That different cars retain value differently isn't intrinsically a problem, however assuming a high resale value for an unknown car feels like stacking the…
Regarding long-term value, a bus company here chose to order electric buses in part because they suspect that in the lifetime of a bus, diesel engines could be banned in cities.
Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car
#45It's interesting to compare this car against the Honda e, which looks like an awesome little car. However, they've priced it about €7,000 more than the id.3 which is probably the reason it's getting comparably little buzz.
But the Honda-e has less range, right? Over here it says the Honda-e has about 125 miles of range, putting it on par with a 2016 Leaf. https://ev-database.uk/car/1171/Honda-e
I just discovered this SEAT: https://ev-database.uk/car/1191/SEAT-Mii-Electric
This is something I can buy.
Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car
#46> The central focus is a new 10-inch touchscreen that sits in the middle of the ID.3’s dashboard. But VW has also opted to rely on touch-sensitive buttons throughout the cabin. In fact, the only things that are controlled through physical buttons, VW says, are the windows and the hazard lights.
I don't understand why big touch screens in cars are seen as a step forward. To me, they raise safety issues, and they lack the elegant and simple ergonomics of earlier cars. By definition, you have to look at a touch screen to use it. In older cars, you might have to glance at the speedometer, and you can do that without even moving your neck.
The huge screen is the number 1 reason I would not buy a Tesla.
Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car
#47European here, trying to actually buy the thing. You can't. The first reservations will be fulfilled in the middle of 2020, but those will only be the mid-sized battery versions. If you want the version with a larger battery, there is no firm ship date, but it is expected in 2021. What I find somewhat amusing is that for the past months we've been bombarded by a huge marketing campaign advertising a car that doesn't…
"huge marketing campaign advertising a car that doesn't exist"
Perhaps they are trying to gauge the likely success of the car before some final production decisions are made.
You do have to wonder how Tesla is going to survive the first surge of practical mass-market electric cars. They definitely are riding some sort of tiger while trying to build out marketshare, technology, infrastructure.
My money is on Toyota but would be thrilled to be wrong.
Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car
#48I'm really excited for more viable electric vehicles. But, the claim that this is the first car for the masses when it's simply 2-3k (~33k to ~35k in USD) cheaper than a Tesla model 3 is discouraging. That said, I do understand that the total cost of ownership does catch up if you keep the car long enough. I would just love to see something in the 20s, or even lower. (Further, I'm very sympathetic to the argument tha…
And that’s for a 205mi range (that will be WLTP not EPA so real world will be ~15% lower) on a 45kWh battery back that can only charge at 50kW. Top speed is 99mph, 0-60 is unannounced. The higher priced versions can charge up to 100kW. But frankly, the base model specs seem abysmal?
The base model has a higher range per dollar than an SR+ by a comfortable margin. Abysmal seems like a strong word...? It might not be as fast or sexy as a Tesla, but cars like this will be the bread and butter of the EV transition.
30k EUR - 19% VAT = ~$27,750 USD, or $135 per WLTP mile.
SR+ is $38,990 with a range of 254, or $153 per WLTP mile.
Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car
#49As much as I can welcome more options for EVs, I just can't trust VW with electronics and software. It's catch-22, traditional automakers sucks at electronics and software, but tesla sucks at making cars.
Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car
#50This is what, in marketing, is called "positioning".
VW is trying to "position" their car as the default electric car, or at least, the only viable alternative to Tesla.
If you don't set your own position, then your competitors will set your position for you. Now it's up to Tesla (or whoever else) to re-position VW, without looking nasty doing it. "The ID.3 is good choice if you can't afford the extra $3k for a Tesla. But only a Tesla has all the features you need, and will keep your family alive in an impact". You don't say "Tesla good, ID.3 bad". This makes you sound nasty. You say "ID.3 good if , but Tesla better if "
It's all marketing nonsense at this point until the car exists.