Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system • Hacker News Board

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#211

Post by AcerbicZero » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

I can see what VW is trying to do here, and honestly out of the various rental cars I've driven over the past 6 months, my Golf R's Android Auto/Car Play integration has probably been one of the best. VW also has a history of people doing minor modifications of their cars electronics, both via the intended menus and for more complicated things, via the outstandingly named vagcom (VCDS)*

I think this is the direction more automakers should go. I drove a friends Tesla the other day, and it shares some the same features, allowing you to make fairly specific customizations of certain things through the built in menu.

*Some items which can be customized via the VCDS - DRL's, Windows Auto-Up/Auto-Down/etc, and a bunch of other things I can't remember anymore.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#212

Post by Shivetya » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

ravedave5 wrote: post #160

I wonder if this is fallout from Tesla. They must have a huge advantage in a way here having a clean sheet architecture only a decade old. Between this and superbottle I think the idea to use suppliers as little as possible may pay off.

Own a Tesla Model 3.

Over the air updates is vastly under estimated by many people. It is just as much of a revolution in the automobile industry as the electric drive train. As more cars move to electric and electrified drive trains the value of over the air updates that Tesla employs will become more evident.

it frees you from being forced to buy a new car to get new and or improved features. plus building a system like that allows Tesla to add new hardware to their cars with ease as the mindset is in place already.

A model S bought five years ago enjoys most if not all the updates a newly purchased model S has today. that is not something any other maker can claim and I doubt that any even want to go there because not only does it free the consumer from having purchase a whole new car for exciting features but obligates the maker to providing updates to an existing car.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#213

Post by codeulike » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 7:39 PM UTC

kozak wrote: post #136

codeulike wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brakes and steering remain mechanical edit: mainly I was thinking of Tesla here. obv there are exceptions

Electronic brakeforce distribution means that when the ABS module is not working, the car will brake worse than the same car with no ABS and purely mechanical brakeforce distribution.

Better than nothing though

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#214

Post by codeulike » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

kozak wrote: post #133

codeulike wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android will just be for the infotainment subsystem.

As first it's only for the infotainment system. And the rear view camera is already a part it. And then at some point the manufacturer lets you adjust your adaptive cruise control through it. Then more and more critical things are integrated into what used to be "infotainment", until very soon the entire car can't run without the screen.

I think on most cars the infotainment systems runs on a separate computer that is connected to the drive computer via a bus. With a bit of commonsense design it should be fairly simple to have a car thats still useable without the infotainment computer.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#215

Post by magduf » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

nexuist wrote: post #150

tt wrote: post #149

Once an OEM opens up its vehicle data and control to Android (and/or Google Automotive), it's game over for them. The OEM becomes a commodity hardware maker. Plenty of analogy with mobile phones manufacturers. The OEM will not make a dime after the sale of the vehicle while Google will build and strengthen a development platform to enable third-party applications and services and profit from them (something Google kn…

>One way out of this is for the major OEMs to band together and create their own standardized platform that works across OEMs. At minimum, that platform should expose a single standard interface to all third-party service providers. This already exists, and it's why there's a slew of Bluetooth-enabled apps on the app stores that let you self-diagnose your own car. It's called OBD-II and it's federally mandated on eve…

OBD-II isn't actually a real standard. The OEMs all tack on additional stuff to it, so none of the implementations are fully compatible with each other. Ford and Mazda, for instance, use a medium-speed CAN bus that other OEMs don't, so most OBD-II readers can't access anything on that bus. Also, the whole point of OBD was supposed to be standardizing diagnostic messages so anyone could read the trouble codes. However, all the OEMs have lots of proprietary codes that aren't in the standard. The whole thing is a mess.

Finally, OBD-II isn't a standard bus anyway. It's an interface to the end user or technician. The various modules on the car are interconnected with a variety of buses: CAN (high-speed or low-speed or medium-speed), LIN, MOST, etc.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#216

Post by mongol » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 7:47 PM UTC

spanktheuser wrote: post #152

I'm also aware of a project from a major automotive supplier to attempt the same thing. From my understanding it's unlikely to succeed because manufacturers view suppliers as commodity producers of components they find boring like brakes, steering systems, sensors, transmissions, safety systems, fuel pumps, etc. Not as anything resembling a true partner. Not to mention that it would require competitors to collaborate…

> manufacturers view suppliers as commodity producers of components they find boring like brakes, steering systems, sensors, transmissions, safety systems, fuel pumps, etc

Does a car manufacturer really find these things boring? Half are like the blood and oxygen of a car, and also includes some territory for unique selling points.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#217

Post by test2016 » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 7:47 PM UTC

Exciting but slow

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#218

Post by mongol » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

ytwySXpMbS wrote: post #196

hobofan wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just like how 'smart' TVs ship a long-lasting high quality panel with an obsolete/user-hostile operating system Who cares? Just ignore the "smart" part, don't give it any Internet access and handle the smart part yourself via so HDMI dongle like a Chromecast.

It can be quite hard to ignore the smart part. For example, my TV can't even display the input selection menu properly. It moves about as it tries to load an ad, then can't.

Did you block it from loading ads?

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#219

Post by magduf » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #186

magduf wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Since I'm apparently I'm so wrong does anyone want to tell me why? Maybe you should explain why you want to break CV joints so badly.

Being able to use every bit of power the vehicle can put to the ground is going to be harder on parts than just mindlessly cutting throttle when wheel spin is detected. I'm fine with that trade-off if it means I can give my grocery getter traction control that's tuned for maintaining forward progress in low traction (like what most of the new Jeeps do if you set the dial to "rocks") as opposed to preventing wheel spi…

I don't know where you learned about traction control, but the normal way it operates is to apply the brakes on the wheel that's spinning so torque is redirected to the other wheel.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#220

Post by magduf » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 7:54 PM UTC

blub wrote: post #208

magduf wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, the other providers are extremely deficient compared to Google Maps, from an end-user perspective. My 4-year-old car came with an infotainment system using HERE maps. It's laughably bad compared to Google Maps, and here's why: 1) The HERE maps aren't auto-updated. You have to go to some trouble to download updates twice a year, and then install them on the car with a USB stick. You only get 3 updates f…

You've discovered how nearly infinite ad dollars and leveraging a near monopoly in mobile has allowed Google to destroy competition.

What competition? There was never anything on that level before Google Maps came around. It's not like Mapquest ever offered similar functionality. Google didn't invent GPS mapping, but they did seem to invent combining it with a bunch of really useful other information like business addresses, hours, reviews, photos, easy searching, etc. And that doesn't even include stuff that isn't useful in cars, like walking/biking directions, public transit directions/hours/etc.

Would we have gotten all this without a near monopoly like Google? The only thing I've seen that comes close is Apple Maps, and that too is backed by a gigantic company with its tentacles in many things. Some company that only does maps isn't going to have access to all that data, so you'll just get a program that makes pretty maps that's only useful if you know the GPS coordinates for something, which of course no one does.