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Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

arstechnica.com

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Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#181

Post by tonyedgecombe »

jonahrd wrote: post #108
yitchelle wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like an underestimation to me. An ECU in car can consume up a team of 200 to 250 engineering resource. This only for those working directly on the ECUs. Add to it the secondary functions, the numbers will explode.

I worked on firmware at Tesla. My estimate is absolute maximum 10 HW engineers, 10 SW, 10 test, a handful of managers, requirements engineers, etc. That would be for an important ECU. I developed the FW for a couple ECUs singlehandedly along with 1 HW engineer and an intern. Maybe that's the difference between Tesla and the others.

Even when you look at bigger teams there are still only a handful of people doing actual work. Out of that team of 10,000 I bet 90% of the commits will come from 100.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#183

Post by castratikron »

spanktheuser wrote: post #152

I'm also aware of a project from a major automotive supplier to attempt the same thing. From my understanding it's unlikely to succeed because manufacturers view suppliers as commodity producers of components they find boring like brakes, steering systems, sensors, transmissions, safety systems, fuel pumps, etc. Not as anything resembling a true partner. Not to mention that it would require competitors to collaborate…

>Legacy company announces that they'll bring a competing solution to market, promising investors that they'll produce a similar quality OS, but across 39 models, uniting 457 separate component suppliers AND the entire post-purchase product support infrastructure. They're starting today and promise to launch in 12 months.

Yup. Sometimes the only way to make real progress is to burn it all down and start over.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#184

Post by hobofan »

bo1024 wrote: post #143
PorterDuff wrote: post #105

It's just my own ignorance speaking (probably), but I can't say that I like the idea of Android getting near/intertwined with mission critical systems. Hopefully 'infotainment' implies something that is well clear of 'stopping' and the like...although I'd just as soon that they dropped the 'tainment' part and simply provided an interface for diagnostics, HVAC, &tc. What bugs me the most about the 'tainment' part is t…

Completely agree, especially on the second paragraph - just like how 'smart' TVs ship a long-lasting high quality panel with an obsolete/user-hostile operating system. On the first paragraph, I thought I'd read this battle is mostly lost already, not with respect to Android, but car software in general is far more intertwined and less robust than you'd think prudent.

> just like how 'smart' TVs ship a long-lasting high quality panel with an obsolete/user-hostile operating system

Who cares? Just ignore the "smart" part, don't give it any Internet access and handle the smart part yourself via so HDMI dongle like a Chromecast.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#185

Post by castratikron »

magduf wrote: post #166
spanktheuser wrote: post #152

I'm also aware of a project from a major automotive supplier to attempt the same thing. From my understanding it's unlikely to succeed because manufacturers view suppliers as commodity producers of components they find boring like brakes, steering systems, sensors, transmissions, safety systems, fuel pumps, etc. Not as anything resembling a true partner. Not to mention that it would require competitors to collaborate…

>That said, how many times have we seen this story in other industries? This is a great post, but it could really use a list of actual examples from other industries.

Read about GE Predix. They basically wanted to become a software company and beat AWS in the "industrial" internet of things.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#186

Post by dsfyu404ed »

magduf wrote: post #177
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I greatly look forward to being able to root any 10yo car and put the traction control in "go forward no matter what" mode rather than "we're cutting throttle so the CVs can outlast the warranty" mode. That said, per the article it sounds like android is just for the infotainment system, not the actual drive-train. Edit: Since I'm apparently I'm so wrong does anyone want to tell me why?

>Since I'm apparently I'm so wrong does anyone want to tell me why? Maybe you should explain why you want to break CV joints so badly.

Being able to use every bit of power the vehicle can put to the ground is going to be harder on parts than just mindlessly cutting throttle when wheel spin is detected. I'm fine with that trade-off if it means I can give my grocery getter traction control that's tuned for maintaining forward progress in low traction (like what most of the new Jeeps do if you set the dial to "rocks") as opposed to preventing wheel spin by cutting throttle (what basically everything else does). CV joints were just an example of a part that might wear out sooner and a hypothetical justification for using the dumb kind of traction control.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#187

Post by ElijahLynn »

With all the car operating systems (OS) that will no doubt be connected to the internet AND abandoned in the coming years. We need a car OS that is fully open source so companies can offer security updates after they are abandoned, so they don't get hacked and taken over as a full autonomous bot army of cars.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#188

Post by iforgotpassword »

magduf wrote: post #166
spanktheuser wrote: post #152

I'm also aware of a project from a major automotive supplier to attempt the same thing. From my understanding it's unlikely to succeed because manufacturers view suppliers as commodity producers of components they find boring like brakes, steering systems, sensors, transmissions, safety systems, fuel pumps, etc. Not as anything resembling a true partner. Not to mention that it would require competitors to collaborate…

>That said, how many times have we seen this story in other industries? This is a great post, but it could really use a list of actual examples from other industries.

Not other industry, but Nokia. And Blackberry.

IBM is an example where the quick panic solution (original IBM PC) surprisingly was quite successful for a while but also bit them in the ass in the end (modularity and exclusive use of off the shelf parts).

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#189

Post by cpeterso »

magduf wrote: post #170
incanus77 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to run Google Maps on this system? You must use Google services as a whole. Don’t want to? Look up the numbers on how many global providers of maps data there are...

Not only that, the other providers are extremely deficient compared to Google Maps, from an end-user perspective. My 4-year-old car came with an infotainment system using HERE maps. It's laughably bad compared to Google Maps, and here's why: 1) The HERE maps aren't auto-updated. You have to go to some trouble to download updates twice a year, and then install them on the car with a USB stick. You only get 3 updates f…

For anyone interested in mapping technology, check out the book "Never Lost Again: The Google Mapping Revolution That Sparked New Industries and Augmented Our Reality". Written by one of the founders of Keyhole, the CIA-funded (In-Q-Tel) company that created the technology that became Google Earth, the book describes the creation of Google Maps, Google Earth, and the political machinations of different Google departments vying to own "geo".

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062673041

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#190

Post by qznc »

chicob wrote: post #114

"But you also have to open up all the car's sensor data [to Google], and when I say all, it really is all sensor data" This is revealing. I'm glad my tractor GPS/guiding system does not run Android.

Working at a major OEM, I heard the interaction with Google was like:

"We would like to buy/licence your maps"

"We will give them to you for free, but you have to install our software"

"k thx bye"

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