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Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

arstechnica.com

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Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#141

Post by criddell »

alexis_fr wrote: post #128
PorterDuff wrote: post #105

It's just my own ignorance speaking (probably), but I can't say that I like the idea of Android getting near/intertwined with mission critical systems. Hopefully 'infotainment' implies something that is well clear of 'stopping' and the like...although I'd just as soon that they dropped the 'tainment' part and simply provided an interface for diagnostics, HVAC, &tc. What bugs me the most about the 'tainment' part is t…

The same was probably said 15 years ago about the computerization of the car engine and their rapid deprecation. Did the average lifespan of a car decrease since then? How ridiculous is it to drive a 4WD into the desert, full of electronics that can’t be repaired and where a single chip can cost 300$ and has to be shipped from mainland America... So yep, with car computerization they reduced the lifespan from 30 to 1…

Vehicle manufacturers are just giving customers what they want.

My family recently bought a new car (a Volvo FWIW) and for the first time we really didn't care about horsepower or fuel efficiency or anything really related to vehicle performance. It was all about the electronics and safety features.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#142

Post by potta_coffee »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #75
LeonM wrote: post #6

I think this is a result of automotive technical progress slowing down. And I don't mean that in a bad way. For the past 100 years, we have been developing better and better cars, with both breakthroughs and incremental improvements in the drivetrain, safety, comfort, reliability, etc. Now though, cars are consolidating. Most car companies only have a handful of 'platforms' on which they build various models. For exa…

ICE engines are not innovating, it's true, but the context is not explained in your post. ICE engines are going to be replaced by electric motors, which are far simpler to maintain and source parts for, and are inherently (due to physics) much more energy-efficient. Given climate and potential revenues for new ICE R&D drying up, you're going to see all the research dollars in 1) batteries and electric drive-train, an…

Mazda's new engine (skyactiv x) looks pretty damn innovative.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#143

Post by bo1024 »

PorterDuff wrote: post #105

It's just my own ignorance speaking (probably), but I can't say that I like the idea of Android getting near/intertwined with mission critical systems. Hopefully 'infotainment' implies something that is well clear of 'stopping' and the like...although I'd just as soon that they dropped the 'tainment' part and simply provided an interface for diagnostics, HVAC, &tc. What bugs me the most about the 'tainment' part is t…

Completely agree, especially on the second paragraph - just like how 'smart' TVs ship a long-lasting high quality panel with an obsolete/user-hostile operating system.

On the first paragraph, I thought I'd read this battle is mostly lost already, not with respect to Android, but car software in general is far more intertwined and less robust than you'd think prudent.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#144

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

alexis_fr wrote: post #128
PorterDuff wrote: post #105

It's just my own ignorance speaking (probably), but I can't say that I like the idea of Android getting near/intertwined with mission critical systems. Hopefully 'infotainment' implies something that is well clear of 'stopping' and the like...although I'd just as soon that they dropped the 'tainment' part and simply provided an interface for diagnostics, HVAC, &tc. What bugs me the most about the 'tainment' part is t…

The same was probably said 15 years ago about the computerization of the car engine and their rapid deprecation. Did the average lifespan of a car decrease since then? How ridiculous is it to drive a 4WD into the desert, full of electronics that can’t be repaired and where a single chip can cost 300$ and has to be shipped from mainland America... So yep, with car computerization they reduced the lifespan from 30 to 1…

This is exactly why, instead of buying a new vehicle, I'm repairing my 15 year-old one myself. I hate the thought of something so expensive and resource-intensive being thought of as disposable.

That, and I hate car payments :-)

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#146

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

mrguyorama wrote: post #135
opencl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grid frequency actually is hyper accurate in a lot of places. i.e. in the Western US the grid is regulated such that a clock running off it will never deviate more than 2 seconds from the atomic clock derived National Bureau of Standards time [1]. Compare to a typical quartz oscillator which will gain or lose around 15 seconds per month. [1] https://www.naesb.org//pdf2/weq_bklet_011505_tec_mc.pdf

This is being pedantic but I guess I was saying it's not hyper accurate in terms of time keeping, even though it's pretty accurate in practical terms. Also, I guess that means my devices with clocks that drift more than two seconds, ie several full minutes, are actually using crystal oscillators? I guess it makes sense for a microwave which needs second level granularity, but that seems odd to me.

Yes.

The crystal in your microwave's CPU clock circuit will drift, and so will the time-of-day derived from it until you set the time again, if there is no external reference. The benefit of using the incoming 50/60Hz AC signal as a timebase is that the power station is responsible for controlling the long term frequency to avoid drift so it can be used as a very reliable reference.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#147

Post by bdamm »

asdfman123 wrote: post #121
ivanhoe wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the same applies for people criticizing the fields they know little about. I'm pretty sure that not all electrical engineers in the world are idiots and that there's a solid reason why they've chosen the grid frequency as a standard way of doing it. One thing that comes to mind is that the crystal oscillators frequency is very temperature sensitive, so probably not ideal solution for using in ovens?

But often times the "good reason" is that the engineer can quietly solve a problem in their cubicle without fighting an epic political battle that affects multiple departments. From that engineer's perspective, it's a perfectly rational choice. And that engineer who writes code might be a brilliant engineer and competent coder, but they just haven't been on many software projects before and they don't see how damning…

As a software guy I have to point out that often software "engineers" overbuild and abstract the wrong stuff, doing stupid things like making everything a layer. There is way more bad code written by professional software engineers than by EEs, who tend to be more results oriented.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#148

Post by IE6 »

grecy wrote: post #87
vgoh1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly disagree that automotive progress, on the mechanical side, has slowed down. The ride quality, handling, fit and finish, noise & vibe, chassis rigidity, fuel economy, reliability, have all been improving. Go back 10 years, go back 10 years before that, etc., and you will see incremental improvements. Beyond that, look at how much more "stuff" comes in cars today, but for the same amount of money. That…

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. haha Go back to a BMW of 1990, and it's not that much different from a new car today. Fuel injection, air bags, ABS. Internal combustion engine, exhaust, radiator, transmission. etc. etc. Heck, even back then it was perfectly normal for a car to get better than 10L/100km (23.5mpg) There have been incremental improvements for sure, but in all honesty it's the same thing, just tweake…

Anecdotally I would argue that the last 10 years have seen a more significant improvement in car technology and capability than the prior 10 years.

If we look at power alone even though EPA regulations have only gotten stricter during the same time frame if we look at the same model of car (Ford Mustang GT) we see that it has gone from 310 HP [1] to 460 HP [2] in 10 years. The same power that was delivered by the V8 which powered the Mustangs that my friends and I pined over in High School (ca. 2004) is now delivered by a compact I4 turbocharged engine which also delivers 25 MPG [3].

[1] https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15147979/2009-ford-mus... [2] https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang [3] https://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang/2019/mpg/#style=4017572...

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#149

Post by tt »

Once an OEM opens up its vehicle data and control to Android (and/or Google Automotive), it's game over for them. The OEM becomes a commodity hardware maker. Plenty of analogy with mobile phones manufacturers. The OEM will not make a dime after the sale of the vehicle while Google will build and strengthen a development platform to enable third-party applications and services and profit from them (something Google knows how to do really well). Think Turo/Getaround, cleaning, refueling, charging, insurance, package delivery, in-car applications, etc.

One way out of this is for the major OEMs to band together and create their own standardized platform that works across OEMs. At minimum, that platform should expose a single standard interface to all third-party service providers.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#150

Post by nexuist »

tt wrote: post #149

Once an OEM opens up its vehicle data and control to Android (and/or Google Automotive), it's game over for them. The OEM becomes a commodity hardware maker. Plenty of analogy with mobile phones manufacturers. The OEM will not make a dime after the sale of the vehicle while Google will build and strengthen a development platform to enable third-party applications and services and profit from them (something Google kn…

>One way out of this is for the major OEMs to band together and create their own standardized platform that works across OEMs. At minimum, that platform should expose a single standard interface to all third-party service providers.

This already exists, and it's why there's a slew of Bluetooth-enabled apps on the app stores that let you self-diagnose your own car. It's called OBD-II and it's federally mandated on every vehicle since 1996 in the US and since 2003 in the EU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics

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