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Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

arstechnica.com

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Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#91

Post by ivanhoe »

mrtksn wrote: post #76
castratikron wrote: post #60

>some models simply won't run if the infotainment system is broken; the navigation GPS provides the vehicle's master time counter, and without that, the powertrain won't function :O

This sounds like a swoftware written by an oldschool electrical engineer or something. I mean, in electromechanical systems that do not have computers, engineers find interesting ways to do more advanced things. For example, ovens with clocks keep track of time through the grid frequency and if the grid frequency changes, the clocks diverge too.

and famously if there's ever a blackout, most of modern ovens will refuse to work until you setup the clock... never seizes to piss me off each time I have to do it...

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#92

Post by mandeepj »

castratikron wrote: post #60

>some models simply won't run if the infotainment system is broken; the navigation GPS provides the vehicle's master time counter, and without that, the powertrain won't function :O

And, they like to call themselves as "Tesla Killers" :-)

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#93

Post by virtualritz »

lnsru wrote: post #48
virtualritz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How big was the engineering team that did the software for the Apollo guidance computer? Actually, I was unable to find the answer to that question.

What about first Apple’s computer? It was designed by a single guy. Edit: “Margaret Hamilton led a team of 350 people to design the software behind the Apollo 11 mission.” Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/07/underapp...

I think this paints the wrong picture.

"The peak activity occurred one year earlier in 1968 with a manpower total of 350." [1]

I have a hard time believing the team was this size throughout the time the project lasted -- above quote seems to 2nd this.

[1] http://klabs.org/history/history_docs/mit_docs/1711.pdf

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#94

Post by PorterDuff »

papermachete wrote: post #84

How long until car modifications are outlawed and reserved for overpriced proprietary mechanics shops?

Between the need for expensive training and diagnostic equipment, and the ever-widening view of things that are .gov mandated and covered under smog or safety laws including spare parts sourcing, we are largely there.

I'll counter. In a world of electric cars (which I'm in favor of), how long until the politically well-connected emissions testing industry becomes repurposed into mandatory safety inspections at the same or higher price?

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#95

Post by ryandrake »

aeyes wrote: post #86
oblio wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Making things more accessible is not a crime, instead it's one of the biggest enablers of our age. See Henry Ford and Ford Model T. 2. Compare apples to apples. How does a new BMW 3-Series compare to your 15 year old one? My guess is, it probably compares favorably.

Depends on what you are looking for. In a new 3-Series you can turn the steering wheel with your index finger, there is no manual transmission, you hear fake engine noise. The 15 year old car offers a completely different driving experience and he might prefer it over the bland, comfortable new car.

Don't forget the styling. Every car looks like the exact same boring "bar of soap with wheels" today. There's a little variation in terms of grill and light clusters, but from a distance I can no longer tell the difference between any of the top 10 sedan or coupe models.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#96

Post by koffiezet »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #75
LeonM wrote: post #6

I think this is a result of automotive technical progress slowing down. And I don't mean that in a bad way. For the past 100 years, we have been developing better and better cars, with both breakthroughs and incremental improvements in the drivetrain, safety, comfort, reliability, etc. Now though, cars are consolidating. Most car companies only have a handful of 'platforms' on which they build various models. For exa…

ICE engines are not innovating, it's true, but the context is not explained in your post. ICE engines are going to be replaced by electric motors, which are far simpler to maintain and source parts for, and are inherently (due to physics) much more energy-efficient. Given climate and potential revenues for new ICE R&D drying up, you're going to see all the research dollars in 1) batteries and electric drive-train, an…

> ICE engines are not innovating, it's true

Guess true variable valve timing and electrical turbo's and are no innovations?

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#97

Post by oblio »

aeyes wrote: post #86
oblio wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Making things more accessible is not a crime, instead it's one of the biggest enablers of our age. See Henry Ford and Ford Model T. 2. Compare apples to apples. How does a new BMW 3-Series compare to your 15 year old one? My guess is, it probably compares favorably.

Depends on what you are looking for. In a new 3-Series you can turn the steering wheel with your index finger, there is no manual transmission, you hear fake engine noise. The 15 year old car offers a completely different driving experience and he might prefer it over the bland, comfortable new car.

I'd be curious to see the numbers, but I'm pretty sure the new one has more oomph than the old one. The comfortable aspect I get, but new BMWs have plenty of bite in them.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#98

Post by ivanhoe »

taneq wrote: post #81
mrtksn wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a swoftware written by an oldschool electrical engineer or something. I mean, in electromechanical systems that do not have computers, engineers find interesting ways to do more advanced things. For example, ovens with clocks keep track of time through the grid frequency and if the grid frequency changes, the clocks diverge too.

Any time you get cross-disciplinary stuff done by people significantly lacking in experience in one of the disciplines, you get stuff like this. Programmer art (shudder), artist code (double shudder), EE software, software engineer circuit board layout, mechanical engineer wiring... Smart people will figure something out but it always looks janky to specialists in the figured-out field.

And the same applies for people criticizing the fields they know little about. I'm pretty sure that not all electrical engineers in the world are idiots and that there's a solid reason why they've chosen the grid frequency as a standard way of doing it. One thing that comes to mind is that the crystal oscillators frequency is very temperature sensitive, so probably not ideal solution for using in ovens?

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#99

Post by lini »

ivanhoe wrote: post #91
mrtksn wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a swoftware written by an oldschool electrical engineer or something. I mean, in electromechanical systems that do not have computers, engineers find interesting ways to do more advanced things. For example, ovens with clocks keep track of time through the grid frequency and if the grid frequency changes, the clocks diverge too.

and famously if there's ever a blackout, most of modern ovens will refuse to work until you setup the clock... never seizes to piss me off each time I have to do it...

This is a security feature. Most modern ovens allow you to set a timer with auto shut-off. This is very useful if you want to go out and come back to a ready meal. You can imagine what would happen if the power went out for a while and after it came back the oven switched on automatically. Refusing to turn on the oven when the clock is not set is the easiest way to prevent problems when it is in use.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#100

Post by jonahrd »

vgoh1 wrote: post #23
Etheryte wrote: post #7

The key takeaway for me here is that they want to build an Android-based OS that will run both user applications and, say, your traction control on the same stack. Given the very mixed history of Android security, updates, and more, I simply can't see how this would end well.

The article must be misleading. Android would never have the latency or reliability to run things like traction control and fuel management. The engineers at auto companies are well aware of this, but perhaps the author of the article is not.

I thought the article was pretty clear in stating that Android is going to be used only for the infotainment system
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