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Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

latimes.com

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Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#171

Post by magduf »

vorpalhex wrote: post #150
magduf wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slashdot still exists? Anyway, yes, HN isn't just tech news, but it does seem to have a strong aversion to highly political topics because they always, always devolve into angry arguments and HN values "civility" over all else. So the parent is right IMO: this really doesn't seem to be a good place to discuss this.

It doesn't seem to usually devolve into arguments (heated exchanges), but it does tend to include debates. Just because not everyone agrees with you (or even each other) doesn't mean the topic isn't worth discussing, or that the comments are uncivil.

>Just because not everyone agrees with you (or even each other) doesn't mean the topic isn't worth discussing, or that the comments are uncivil.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but these discussions usually do tend to devolve to incivility. Whether the topic is worth discussing is another matter; this site doesn't like uncivil discussion and tends to quickly ban people when this happens, so it makes sense that it would simply avoid these discussions altogether. These days, if you want civil political discussion, you either need to keep out people with very different opinions (so more like-minded people can discuss finer policy points instead of constantly arguing over extremely fundamental differences of worldview), or you need to have an extremely involved and active full-time moderation team to keep things civil.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#172

Post by Sag0Sag0 »

chachachoney wrote: post #124
ackbar03 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to support above poster on this one because it's true. Every opinion here that offers an opinion not in support of the protestors seems to be disregarded as a Chinese agent and gets down voted

Yeah, it's crazy to witness solidarity amongst people supporting democratic ideals in the age of the troll farm.

Ahh yes. Which is why the members of Hacker News were so into solidarity with the Yellow vesters. Ohh, wait its only when Chinese citizens protest that its good.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#173

Post by dang »

dqonvzpa wrote: post #22
mexus wrote: post #18

Why did this story get flagged? I found it interesting and learned a bit more about the topic.

HN is influenced by CCP. Paul Graham is doing business in China. Any bad words about CCP will get censored. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17763426

Every part of that is untrue.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#175

Post by joelx »

chachachoney wrote: post #161
KyleBerezin wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we start?

Good question. Given that the concept of asylum has been demonized by the current administration in the US, seems like the first step is electing the opposition party and demanding that they express their sympathies for HK protestors with legislation instead of words, thoughts and prayers.

We need to help evacuate Hong Kong and offer asylum and citizenships in the USA, Japan, Canada, etc to anyone who wants to flee totalitarianism.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#176

Post by vorpalhex »

magduf wrote: post #171
vorpalhex wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem to usually devolve into arguments (heated exchanges), but it does tend to include debates. Just because not everyone agrees with you (or even each other) doesn't mean the topic isn't worth discussing, or that the comments are uncivil.

>Just because not everyone agrees with you (or even each other) doesn't mean the topic isn't worth discussing, or that the comments are uncivil. Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but these discussions usually do tend to devolve to incivility. Whether the topic is worth discussing is another matter; this site doesn't like uncivil discussion and tends to quickly ban people when this happens, so it makes sense th…

> These days, if you want civil political discussion, you either need to keep out people with very different opinions

That's called an echo chamber. That isn't discussion, it's just playing with yourself.

> these discussions usually do tend to devolve to incivility

This the internet, anyone is free to comment, and some amount of those comments will be in-civil. Don't reply to them, flag/report/downvote as appropriate. However - if a comment is one you disagree with, and you think it's uncivil, it's probably best to just take a step back because human bias (whether it's me, or you, or any other random HNer) is strong.

> you need to have an extremely involved and active full-time moderation team to keep things civil

In my experience, while a moderation team can do a lot of good, they can also simply turn a given community into an echo chamber of the moderation staff's views. See /r/politics on reddit for an example of this.

Next time you find yourself headed down the path of what seems like a disagreement turning into a real argument, take a moment to restate the points of your opponent you agree with. I usually use something like "So here are the points I think we agree on..."

Then, I usually like to highlight what seems to be the fundamental difference between the two statements, "It seems like we're in disagreement over X".

Don't assign value statements or qualifiers here. Your goal isn't to help or hinder any side of the argument when you do this, it's just to re-align the participants.

Often when people get upset in a discussion, it's because they feel like they're not being heard. They're making a case, and you're arguing something else, which causes frustration and anger. Taking a moment to re-align indicates you are listening to your discussion partner (or if you aren't being a good listener, will help find where you went off track).

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#177

Post by magduf »

vorpalhex wrote: post #176
magduf wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just because not everyone agrees with you (or even each other) doesn't mean the topic isn't worth discussing, or that the comments are uncivil. Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but these discussions usually do tend to devolve to incivility. Whether the topic is worth discussing is another matter; this site doesn't like uncivil discussion and tends to quickly ban people when this happens, so it makes sense th…

> These days, if you want civil political discussion, you either need to keep out people with very different opinions That's called an echo chamber. That isn't discussion, it's just playing with yourself. > these discussions usually do tend to devolve to incivility This the internet, anyone is free to comment, and some amount of those comments will be in-civil. Don't reply to them, flag/report/downvote as appropriate…

It's not an "echo chamber" if you just don't want to talk to people with polar-opposite views. You're not going to have a productive discussion between, for instance, anyone on the left and a group of neo-Nazis. Excluding neo-Nazis from a discussion doesn't make it an "echo chamber".

As for being heard, maybe the problem is no one wants to waste their time and breath dealing with people with such different views. When literal decades have gone by and those people still cling to same views, there really isn't much point in trying to change their minds now.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#178

Post by chachachoney »

Sag0Sag0 wrote: post #172
chachachoney wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's crazy to witness solidarity amongst people supporting democratic ideals in the age of the troll farm.

Ahh yes. Which is why the members of Hacker News were so into solidarity with the Yellow vesters. Ohh, wait its only when Chinese citizens protest that its good.

That's interesting. I haven't read any of the yellow vest comment threads on HN.

Are there people posting in this thread who were active in the Yellow vest threads?

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