Yes ok, it’s a bad batch of juice (probably), it won’t effect most vapers (probably), better regulation will solve the problem (maybe). But I have got to ask... was all the vaping done thus far and into the future worth even one person dying needlessly? It’s cigarettes all over again. Who benefits except the people selling it? Yes freedom, yes whatabout other pointless harmful things in the world, but vaping has alre…
Something like 400,000 people a year die in the US due to smoking. Vaping is mostly a substitute for smoking. But even if millions of non-smokers start vaping, it's a net positive.
CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads
61–70 of 310 posts
Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads
#62The thing causing this outbreak seems to have been someone using a vitamin e oil to increase the potency of their thx carts up to 95% or so. [0] I also believe they were out of Chicago. Or at least they shipped a lot of carts to Chicago/Illinois and then they spread out from there. But this is just from the cases I've read. Also from today Doctors have identified previously unrecognized characteristic of the vaping-r…
From a thread on Reddit[0], written by a cannibis biologist: “The reason [vitamin e is] being found in black market carts is because black market manufacturers are incentivized to dilute out their product as much as possible to maximize profit. They don't have to provide you with potency numbers, they just need the cartridge to look plausibly full of distillate. This means they use any of the aforementioned dilution…
This is precisely why this industry needs to be regulated by the FDA .. or BATF? While I personally don't consume cannabis (it messes with my constitution way too much) there is no reason why it should still be illegal.
Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's because you can opt out of the former. "No, I won't buy from Starbucks because of their cups. No, I won't eat that because it has GMOs." It's a lot harder to make that commitment when it's the air you breathe - you either have to wear a mask all the time or move away and live in the wilderness.
Oooor you can choose not to vaporize things to inhale? This isn't in normal air, it's specifically from vaping
Suppose someone bought a car, and found out that the car vents were spewing somewhat toxic that has a slight chance to kill them. If they needed to go to work in it to put food on the table, can you see how someone might say they had no choice but to use it?
Now take that logic and apply it to a vape cartridge. Say someone bought that cartridge which carries so many doses, along with paying the cost of the physical vape machine and the cost of electrically charging the machine, and spent the necessary time and emotional cost to wait for the machine to do so. Then they find it out it may be toxic. Is it really a realistic choice to take the financial and emotional burden of throwing away the cartridge, if it provides a needed soothing relief to their mind?
Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you sure vaping is actually reducing potential harm? Because our national health agency isn’t[1]. As I understand it, a few brands come with a lower risk of certain tobacco induced cancers compared to smoking. Which is harm reduction, I guess, but research is suggesting that all vaping comes with greater risk to the respiratory system and heart. Of course the real issue in evaluating the safety of e-cigerates is…
I’ve stated this before: cigarettes will kill me with a 100% probability (I was smoking over a pack a day). Maybe vaping will not kill me. Maybe I’ll grow a third arm in 20 years. I don’t know. But I have to play the odds; “100% certainty” vs “maybe not”, I know which one I’m going for. Also, I’ve gone from 9mg of nicotine to 1mg in 2 years, because vaping allows me to monitor and measure exactly how much nicotine I…
The murder victim rate of smokers is non zero, the road accident fatality rate of smokers is non zero.
And on the other side the lung cancer rate of non smokers is non zero.
So you can't really say ahead of time you will even die of a smoking associated cause, and even if you did, you can't definitively state that it was caused by the smoking.
Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads
#65The thing causing this outbreak seems to have been someone using a vitamin e oil to increase the potency of their thx carts up to 95% or so. [0] I also believe they were out of Chicago. Or at least they shipped a lot of carts to Chicago/Illinois and then they spread out from there. But this is just from the cases I've read. Also from today Doctors have identified previously unrecognized characteristic of the vaping-r…
From a thread on Reddit[0], written by a cannibis biologist: “The reason [vitamin e is] being found in black market carts is because black market manufacturers are incentivized to dilute out their product as much as possible to maximize profit. They don't have to provide you with potency numbers, they just need the cartridge to look plausibly full of distillate. This means they use any of the aforementioned dilution…
Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might also explain why the cases seem confined to the USA and we're not seeing it amongst other large vaping populations like Canada and the UK There are too many fly-by-night and backyard operators in both the device and liquid industries - it is very reminiscent of the prohibition era where people died from bad batches of alcohol I'd really prefer to see a well-regulated industry as vaping is one of the best har…
Are you sure vaping is actually reducing potential harm? Because our national health agency isn’t[1]. As I understand it, a few brands come with a lower risk of certain tobacco induced cancers compared to smoking. Which is harm reduction, I guess, but research is suggesting that all vaping comes with greater risk to the respiratory system and heart. Of course the real issue in evaluating the safety of e-cigerates is…
Your link (in translation) makes some good points:
E-Cigarettes are not a medicine and are not regulated as such and so might be lower quality; there's a lot of variation in types of product and ingredients used; liquid refill ratio may be unsuitable for one machine even though it's recommended for another;
> The National Board of Health recommends not using e-cigarettes
> There is considerable uncertainty about the potential health consequences of e-cigarettes both with and without nicotine, especially in the long term. Therefore, the National Board of Health does not recommend using e-cigarettes. This is especially true for pregnant women, nursing mothers, children and adolescents.
I don't think this link is saying that vaping does not reduce harm. I think it's using the precautionary principle to say we don't know what the harms are yet, and some harms are emerging.
I do think they're making reasonable points, especially if they're providing nicotine replacement as part of smoking cessation services that are freely available.
Other countries have health services that have come to different conclusions. In the UK Public Health England say that vaping is less harmful than smoking and that it's ok for smokers to switch to vaping, but that we really don't want anyone who doesn't smoke to start vaping.
Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reminds me of the old joke about the guy at the fast-food joint: I’ll have a double bacon cheeseburger, a large fries, and a diet coke . Like — why are you buying this totally unhealthy meal and then getting a diet coke? Who are you kidding? Yet — I’ve been that guy. So it’s not so mind boggling.
Some groups like T1 diabetics can not have the amount of sugar in "normal" fizzy drinks. That amount of sugar can cause issues from nausea to messed up glucose levels needing hospitalization. Hamburgers and fries are not a problem (not healthy but not dangerous). "Diet Coke" is just a stupid name for sugar free drinks.
Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reminds me of the old joke about the guy at the fast-food joint: I’ll have a double bacon cheeseburger, a large fries, and a diet coke . Like — why are you buying this totally unhealthy meal and then getting a diet coke? Who are you kidding? Yet — I’ve been that guy. So it’s not so mind boggling.
Some groups like T1 diabetics can not have the amount of sugar in "normal" fizzy drinks. That amount of sugar can cause issues from nausea to messed up glucose levels needing hospitalization. Hamburgers and fries are not a problem (not healthy but not dangerous). "Diet Coke" is just a stupid name for sugar free drinks.
Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oooor you can choose not to vaporize things to inhale? This isn't in normal air, it's specifically from vaping
When you buy a cup from Starbucks you typically are only buying a single dose. If you buy a vape cartridge, you have dozens of doses. It's much harder to throw the latter away than the former. Suppose someone bought a car, and found out that the car vents were spewing somewhat toxic that has a slight chance to kill them. If they needed to go to work in it to put food on the table, can you see how someone might say th…
It's funny to read this here because that's exactly what happened to me. I was driving a diesel car with a damaged firewall, which meant carcinogenic diesel exhaust fumes came through the floor and vents. I had absolutely no budget for a car, as I was paying for expensive medical insurance and bills. I had no choice but to drive it with the windows down. My clothes would smell of diesel after driving. I took it multiple times to the dealership until they found the problem, and they said it would be more costly to repair it than to buy a new car.
Fortunately, I eventually bought a new car. But I still might get lung cancer in the future.
Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads
#70I had a startup in Vaping(nicotine) and am still fairly in touch with the industry. There has been no major innovation in nicotine eliquid that would cause a sudden cluster of issues. It's stayed pretty constant since 2013 with the exception of Salt Nicotine, which Pax labs has a gras study published for. The majority of cases seems to be THC carts where it can be confirmed. One case was confirmed from a dispensary i…
As someone who was in the industry, what do you think about the argument of vaping being a safer alternative? I see pretty mixed things in the health community but it's tough because some of the argument seems to be that the tobacco industry has acted nefariously in the past so we can't trust any innovation in the space. Is there any known experience similar to vaping/smoking of today that has really minimal health c…
Most vapor products can be used with eliquid that has varied levels of nicotine and most shops were (2012-2017) very active in promoting customers to reduce their nicotine level to 0, so addiction to the devices can be self regulated if that is your goal.