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EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

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Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#61

Post by 14 »

rsynnott wrote: post #32
tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misunderstanding I see repeated a lot. The idea isn't unshackling big corporations, it's about unshackling small to medium sized businesses and entrepreneurs. Big corps actually love regulations for the barriers to entry they create, and most of them already have a whole host of regulatory compliance teams armed and ready to dissect the next big regulation that comes. > Americans get stuck with slow…

So, on the high end, the US is fine, and thus is does fairly well on mean speeds (top 10 on some metrics). However, if your internet in the US is bad, it's often really, _really_ bad. In areas without competition, providers still sometimes use ADSL1! (Max 8 down, In general, the tendency in most European countries has been to force wholesaling and/or LLU, and set minimum standards for both; this has generally at leas…

Side not as a Canadian...you can bet the farm the the second satellite internet becomes mainstream, Bell Telus and Rogers will be shitting them selves because they provide the shittiest service for the worst price you can imagine and just like BCTel had us by the balls at one point the second competition came in they were done for and people left in droves. I really hope it pushes these crappy business to offer better service for the price.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#62

Post by callmeal »

jussij wrote: post #37
nolok wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the EASA finds real major issue that the FAA didn’t find then the FAA being the world validation office for Boeing planes is over. But I don’t think this will happen, the FAA seem to have realized how angry the rest of the world agencies are. 350 dead because they screwed up, and their first reaction was to say it was the dead pilots fault...

The FAA lost a big chunk of it's credibility in the way they handled the fist MAX 737 crash. The fact Ethiopa insisted on sending the flight records for their MAX 737 crash to Europe and not to the US shows some serious loss of trust in the FAA had occurred. And that was not helped when the USA was the last country to ground the aircraft.

>The fact Ethiopa insisted on sending the flight records for their MAX 737 crash to Europe and not to the US shows some serious loss of trust in the FAA had occurred.

I don't blame them, given how Boeing had previously tampered with crash evidence[0].

From the article on the investigation of the crash of Flight 585:

>Walz, of Parker Bertea, was assigned to hand-carry the servo valve to Irvine. John Calvin, the quality-control engineer from Boeing, instructed an assistant to pack up the parts. According to court records, the assistant left the room and returned with a taped package, which he handed to Walz, who carried it on a flight to Southern California.

>When Walz opened the package that afternoon at the Parker Bertea plant, he discovered that three servo-valve parts were missing: a spring, spring guide and end cap.

>Boeing, citing ongoing litigation, has never explained why those three parts were left out of the package forwarded to Irvine.

[0] http://old.seattletimes.com/news/local/737/part02/

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#64

Post by michaelt »

vinay427 wrote: post #57
AmVess wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not recent years. Decades. FAA has been under regulatory capture by Boeing for decades. The world ignoring anything the FAA has to say about anything is a stance that's long overdue.

> FAA has been under regulatory capture by Boeing for decades. > The world ignoring anything the FAA has to say about anything is a stance that's long overdue. I don't see how the second part follows from the first. Can you elaborate on how regulatory capture by Boeing affects FAA regulations on everything they do?

If, due to regulatory capture, the FAA has been wrongly approving Boeing designs, the rest of the world is wise not to blindly accept FAA approval.

Of course, outside of the specific domain of approving Boeing designs, if the FAA says something isn't safe, or produces a report on a crash or suchlike, the world may want to pay heed.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#65

Post by mannykannot »

tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #30
cadence- wrote: post #27

Americans have been dismantling and weakening their regulatory bodies for quite a while now. The idea is that this will unshackle big corporations and allow them to innovate faster. This sounds like a great idea, until you realize that this “innovation” is most often about increasing profits. And the quality of the product is often sacrificed to increase profits. Just look at what is happening to telecommunication se…

This is a common misunderstanding I see repeated a lot. The idea isn't unshackling big corporations, it's about unshackling small to medium sized businesses and entrepreneurs. Big corps actually love regulations for the barriers to entry they create, and most of them already have a whole host of regulatory compliance teams armed and ready to dissect the next big regulation that comes. > Americans get stuck with slow…

> Big corps actually love regulations for the barriers to entry they create...

When they can get regulations that have that effect, then they are indeed in favor of them, but in this case, Boeing was doing all it could to avoid and subvert regulation in its haste to catch up with its competitor.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#66

Post by somesortofsystm »

AmVess wrote: post #33
jwr wrote: post #24

This is excellent news. The FAA has lots its credibility by rubber-stamping whatever Boeing said in recent years. This will both mean an independent review (and re-certification of what is a effectively different airplane) and additional pressure on the FAA to actually do its job.

Not recent years. Decades. FAA has been under regulatory capture by Boeing for decades. The world ignoring anything the FAA has to say about anything is a stance that's long overdue.

Totally.

For me, its like this - where:

>regulatory capture

.. exists for "Entity: X", then

>The world ignoring anything the "X" has to say about anything is a stance that's long overdue.

.. is true.

We need to fight for our democracy, and capture/usurp is one way it is corrupted, time and again. Alas, behind great deals of ignorance, one can hide a lot of intent.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#67

Post by MaupitiBlue »

jacques_chester wrote: post #38
rswail wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should operate how the judicial systems operate in Anglo-related countries. The US SCOTUS has used legal rulings from the UK and vice versa as "guidance" to their own legal rulings, but not as authoritative. The FAA/EASA/ATSB/* should refer to each other. To quote Ronald Reagan, "Trust but Verify".

A nitpick: the usual term is "persuasive", as in "we find the argument of our brother court to be persuasive". This typically means that the foreign case does, in fact, become precedent by proxy. For example, as an Australian law student, I read Marbury v. Madison , which was held persuasive in Australia because of the direct influence between the US constitution and Australian constitution. Another case with enormou…

In the US we read an Australian torts case involving ships burning in a harbor.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#68

Post by Angostura »

notimetorelax wrote: post #55
Angostura wrote: post #50

As a matter of interest, does the FAA accept EASA's certification of Airbus planes? I foresee a possible tit for tat.

I think this should not matter. The primary objective is safety.

It should. I could see an embarrassed FAA opting to drop reciprocity to try and avoid looking (so) bad.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#70

Post by pixl97 »

minikites wrote: post #31
tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misunderstanding I see repeated a lot. The idea isn't unshackling big corporations, it's about unshackling small to medium sized businesses and entrepreneurs. Big corps actually love regulations for the barriers to entry they create, and most of them already have a whole host of regulatory compliance teams armed and ready to dissect the next big regulation that comes. > Americans get stuck with slow…

>Big corps actually love regulations for the barriers to entry they create, and most of them already have a whole host of regulatory compliance teams armed and ready to dissect the next big regulation that comes. So then why do big corporations spend so much time and money lobbying against regulation?

And I will ask, why do big corporations spend so much time and money lobbying for regulations that benefit them?
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