Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card • Hacker News Board

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#31

Post by jaclaz » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

skykooler wrote: post #22

alanfranz wrote: post #13

Beyond the fact that I don't understand why a virtual card should be a problem, I think that this era of "we can deny you a service and tell you nothing" should stop. It's one of the biggest issues of the modern internet. I understand that laws are different around the world. In Italy, whatever is defined as a "public exercise" - anything offering its services to the anybody, be it a shop, a store, a cafè, a restaura…

There's rules about discrimination for specific reasons: you can't discriminate based on age, race, gender, etc. "Which credit card" you use isn't one of those categories, so it's legal to discriminate based on it. (And is often done, though not to this extent; many places, for example, will accept Visa and Mastercard but not Discover.)

>so it's legal to discriminate based on it. (And is often done, though not to this extent; many places, for example, will accept Visa and Mastercard but not Discover.)

Sure, but one thing is:

"Sorry, I cannot accept Discover, do you happen to have another means of payment?"

and another one is:

"Sorry, I cannot accept Discover, and since you presented one of those cards to me once, then you are prevented for the rest of your life to enter these premises again".

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#32

Post by WalterBright » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

riku_iki wrote: post #18

WalterBright wrote: post #11

I learned the hard way to always have at least two ways people can buy things from you. Never bet your business on another business that uses algorithms to arbitrarily disconnect yours and algorithms to respond to customer service inquiries.

You cut yourself from a lot of opportunities that way.

Don't say you weren't warned :-)

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#33

Post by themagician » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #2

Google's classic canned response of "We've confirmed we're right, we will not tell you why and this is the last reply you'll receive" is one of the most infuriating things I can imagine. I make my income primarily through AdSense and live in fear of that email one day. In this scenario it seems pretty obvious that their automated fraud AI messed up, but the customer service person is probably also automated. They hav…

I had this exact issue with FB a while ago. Got that exact response.

Fortunately I’d worked with FB before for major brands, so I knew the email to send to to get a real person. There is almost always a monitored email address for accounts receivable, and if you email them pretending like you are having trouble making a large payment, someone will respond. When they think it’s a fat check, suddenly “this decision is final” is just a mistake.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#34

Post by Godel_unicode » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

janoc wrote: post #15

jonknee wrote: post #2

Google's classic canned response of "We've confirmed we're right, we will not tell you why and this is the last reply you'll receive" is one of the most infuriating things I can imagine. I make my income primarily through AdSense and live in fear of that email one day. In this scenario it seems pretty obvious that their automated fraud AI messed up, but the customer service person is probably also automated. They hav…

And why do you think this isn't intentional? Spending money on people solving company's screwups costs a lot of money. For the company the size of Google or Facebook one client (or hundred) like this are peanuts, drop in the bucket. The cost of losing them is minimal over the costs of paying a support person to deal with problems. Big client won't get banned - and if they do, they have also a non-public phone number…

> ...with ISPs it is almost impossible to find a contact to an actual person...

What ISP are you talking about? I've never had trouble getting a real person with Verizon, CenturyLink, or ATT. You might have to wait on hold for a few dozen minutes, but that's a separate issue.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#35

Post by lallysingh » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

eridius wrote: post #16

hamandcheese wrote: post #6

> All I can say is that it's likely that he was either using a virtual card or his identity was tied to a previously suspended account. > After doing a bit of research, I discovered that the number that is generated in the wallet app (the only way you can get your card number for the Apple Card) is, infact, a virtual card. This seems like the likely cause.

Why does Google hate virtual cards though? It's an anti-fraud mechanism. Google's declaring that using an anti-fraud mechanism is in fact an indication of fraud?

Probably because you can hide the same underlying account number, so you can burn virtual cards on new fraud accounts without the additional cost of setting up new underlying accounts.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#36

Post by StanAngeloff » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

Another day, another horror story and with that a further confirmation of how profoundly broken Google's support is. I shall think twice before buying into any Google products and so should you. Imagine having you entire company cloud account suspended with no one to talk to... Or getting blocked from your domain/Gmail and unable to communicate... Or getting kicked out of the Play store when this is your only means of earning a living. These are not hypothetical, these are stories from HN front page just this year. Frightening and infuriating at the same time.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#37

Post by chmaynard » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:45 PM UTC

jxdxbx wrote: post #26

Google's actual policies state that it accepts virtual cards. https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/2375433?hl=en

Relevant section:

In addition to regular credit cards, you can also use a one-time use credit card (also known as virtual credit card). It's commonly used as an alternative to physical credit cards when making online payments. Google Ads accepts these credit cards as long as they have a Visa or MasterCard logo. If you don't have a physical credit card, contact your bank to see if they offer them.

Steps to use a one-time use credit card:

Sign in to your Google Ads account at https://ads.google.com. Click the tool icon and choose Billing & payments. Go there now Click the Make a payment button. Click the "Pay with" drop-down and choose Add new payment method, then enter your one-time use credit card information. Enter the amount you'd like to make a payment for, then click the Make a payment button to review and finish your payment. Be sure to include $1 more than your payment amount for card verification.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#38

Post by microtherion » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:45 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #2

Google's classic canned response of "We've confirmed we're right, we will not tell you why and this is the last reply you'll receive" is one of the most infuriating things I can imagine. I make my income primarily through AdSense and live in fear of that email one day. In this scenario it seems pretty obvious that their automated fraud AI messed up, but the customer service person is probably also automated. They hav…

> In this scenario it seems pretty obvious that their automated fraud AI messed up

Ah, but is it really obvious? One of the benefits of virtual card numbers, in particular the Apple Card implementation, is that it's easy to switch them out, which makes tracking harder.

Could it be that a company that makes its living off tracking users would not be overly fond of virtual card numbers? As long as users' reaction is "if you're planning on using the Apple Card for anything important, think again", it looks like the AI did exactly what it was meant to do.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#39

Post by GeekyBear » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:46 PM UTC

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #24

jonknee wrote: post #2

Google's classic canned response of "We've confirmed we're right, we will not tell you why and this is the last reply you'll receive" is one of the most infuriating things I can imagine. I make my income primarily through AdSense and live in fear of that email one day. In this scenario it seems pretty obvious that their automated fraud AI messed up, but the customer service person is probably also automated. They hav…

> Google's classic canned response of "We've confirmed we're right, we will not tell you why and this is the last reply you'll receive" is one of the most infuriating things I can imagine. Apple does that too [1]. I assume it's to prevent a DoS from fraudsters. (Obviously, it's a problem for legitimate users) [1] https://qz.com/1683460/what-happens-to-your-itunes-account-w...

In your example, the user was easily able to contact a real human being who informed them that their account had been terminated for using a fraudulent gift card.

That human being even went to bat for the user and tried to convince corporate that buying the fraudulent gift card had been an honest mistake in trusting the wrong seller and not intentional fraud.

This seems like quite a different experience from "you are banned for life and we won't even talk to you or tell you why".

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#40

Post by Godel_unicode » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:46 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #23

janoc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why do you think this isn't intentional? Spending money on people solving company's screwups costs a lot of money. For the company the size of Google or Facebook one client (or hundred) like this are peanuts, drop in the bucket. The cost of losing them is minimal over the costs of paying a support person to deal with problems. Big client won't get banned - and if they do, they have also a non-public phone number…

It is intentional, I'm just saying it's ridiculous. the Google way is to treat everything like a programming problem. That works decently well for bits, but really breaks down when working with humans.

The thing is that it doesn't break down except in the extreme cases, and even then it's often less bad than the edge cases with traditional human-mediated customer service. Consider the Wells Fargo accounts snafu, or the Comcast customer nickname issue. Or PayPal just in general. Is Google actually worse, or are they the kind of better that makes their rarer screwups seem worse. Consider in your evaluation just how many people they deal with using their automated systems.