I haven't really run into any.
Has anyone run into some unexpectedly?
NPM Bans Terminal Ads
61–70 of 377 posts
Re: NPM Bans Terminal Ads
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm actually curious: what exactly does the "F" mean to you?
Thanks for engaging me on this, genuinely appreciate it amidst the torrent of downvotes (would be interested to hear more of the opinions of those who downvoted me). Yeah, good question and something I've been wrestling with a lot myself. I used to think "free" meant monetarily free, but lately (in the last few years, call it aging, I dunno), I've started to subscribe to the notion of "free" as championed by the Free…
Thing is, while the "Free" in "Free Software" is ambiguous, the "F" is FOSS has always meant "free as in freedom". It's not a new interpretation by feross (and I think the downvoters are reacting negatively to that suggestion).
Re: NPM Bans Terminal Ads
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
OSS is sustainable. I don’t like how tidelift seems to present a partial story. If there some OSS crisis that I’m not aware of? Separately, just because something is an approach doesn’t mean it’s worth talking about.
Yes, there is a crisis. Critical infrastructure is maintained by single developers who get no money for their effort, while the companies using their work make billions.
I'd even say these ads were just one symptom, we'll see more and more until people realize that yes it's fun to use free(dom) software but if you don't follow the other part of the "contact" of contributing in some way, it's not sustainable. Someone once said on HN that FOSS culture has mixed with startup culture and the startup culture doesn't like the pushback, I suspect it's true.
Re: NPM Bans Terminal Ads
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Adware is malware This seems like an overreaction. Are HN ads (those links to YC company jobs) malware? According to feross, the ads were just static hardcoded messages. I find it distasteful, but I don't see how it's "malware".
The entire advertising industry is scum. I worked in it for two years and wish I never did. That's a sin I now atone for by discouraging younger developers from making the same mistake, using the harshest language I think dang will permit. It doesn't matter if there is no telemetry (and if this were to be normalized, there would eventually be telemetry. Such are the economic incentives in the ad industry. When it's p…
But yet, part of the allure of hobby magazines, for instances, are the ads.
Ads need not be scummy, and just because some are doesn't mean all are. Ads _can_ be primarily informational without being "scummy" or "sleazy".
Sure, yes, most of the ad industry is currently about being manipulative and invasive, but it need not be that way. We, as a society, need to figure out how to stop it from being that way across the board, because as you said, good actors will be at a disadvantage to sleazy actors.
Re: NPM Bans Terminal Ads
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
>, why is it so alarming to think that these maintainers might think of a clever idea like this to make a couple thousand bucks? [...] But instead of attacking the guy for trying, I really wish the discussion were focussed on how the community of open-source consumers can contribute back to the open source ecosystem You're (possibly unintentionally) distorting/diverting the issue. Nobody is criticizing open source ma…
I agree with the sentiment that shady things shouldn't be excused because "I'm an open source developer and I need money". You have a point there. Although: > decides to embed advertising such as "Try LINODE for 30 days!" in "README.md" Are you trying to say that this is also not acceptable? Our company sponsors a few open source npm projects, and all of the projects we sponsor have our logo in the README.md - is tha…
>we sponsor have our logo in the README.md - is that really not socially acceptable?
In the d3 example I tried to exaggerate the hypothetical intrusiveness of ads by embedding it in all the js source files.
In your specific case, if nobody is complaining about your ad inside of a single "README.md", I'm going to presume it's "acceptable".
Re: NPM Bans Terminal Ads
#66While I don't particularly like the idea of stuffing ads into npm logs, I don't have the same visceral negative reaction that many people have in these HN threads on this topic. The overwhelming majority of the people complaining about this are well-paid tech workers writing code for well-funded companies that profit off of open source code without providing any reciprocal value to the open source projects in return.…
If you are a software developer and you want to make money, sell your software. If you want give away your software for free, do that.
Giving away software for free and then using adware to make up the difference is something else entirely.
If someone wants to make money with developing software, they have many many ways of doing that. Framing this as poor starving software developers getting the shaft by for-profit companies is a huge mis-representation of the situation. No one is chained to their desk and forced to produce NPM packages.
Re: NPM Bans Terminal Ads
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
>, why is it so alarming to think that these maintainers might think of a clever idea like this to make a couple thousand bucks? [...] But instead of attacking the guy for trying, I really wish the discussion were focussed on how the community of open-source consumers can contribute back to the open source ecosystem You're (possibly unintentionally) distorting/diverting the issue. Nobody is criticizing open source ma…
I agree with the sentiment that shady things shouldn't be excused because "I'm an open source developer and I need money". You have a point there. Although: > decides to embed advertising such as "Try LINODE for 30 days!" in "README.md" Are you trying to say that this is also not acceptable? Our company sponsors a few open source npm projects, and all of the projects we sponsor have our logo in the README.md - is tha…
There is a difference between a company logo and "Try Company PRODUCT for 30 days!"
I imagine the latter comes with a link, perhaps even a tracking one, to sign up for the service.
Re: NPM Bans Terminal Ads
#68While I don't particularly like the idea of stuffing ads into npm logs, I don't have the same visceral negative reaction that many people have in these HN threads on this topic. The overwhelming majority of the people complaining about this are well-paid tech workers writing code for well-funded companies that profit off of open source code without providing any reciprocal value to the open source projects in return.…
>, why is it so alarming to think that these maintainers might think of a clever idea like this to make a couple thousand bucks? [...] But instead of attacking the guy for trying, I really wish the discussion were focussed on how the community of open-source consumers can contribute back to the open source ecosystem You're (possibly unintentionally) distorting/diverting the issue. Nobody is criticizing open source ma…
This is an unfair go at the poster. He said "I'm not arguing that npm install logs should be packed full of ads (it shouldn't)."
That's clear as can be. He's asking the same question I am, how do we get sufficient funding for these projects. Re your patreon suggestion, I thought we recently had an article where someone got little to nothing on that.
> or getting hired by FAANG
So one way to support foss software is to get hired by a closed source company. Kind of defeats your point.
This is the problem right here, "I want but I'm not personally going to pay". We get ads (funding model of the modern web) or foss remains underfunded while non-foss companies get the cash they need. The problem is human nature. And yes, I've personally opened my wallet for them, and will again.
Re: NPM Bans Terminal Ads
#69I don't like terminal ads either, but I wouldn't mind them if they meant that the creators of popular libraries can keep maintaining their work without giving up their personal lives.
Monetization is still a huge taboo in the open-source community and is badly viewed by many of it's biggest beneficiaries, developers who make their entire living out of skills that consist of knowing how to use these open source and free technologies.
Shouldn't the creators of these libraries that bring so much value not be able to make a decent living maintaining them, instead of working for some company maintaining a silly CRUD application during the best hours of their day, while their side project which is much more valuable to the world only gets the odd final hours of the day, at the expense of their family?
If more open source maintainers could make a living doing directly open source, this would mean better quality libraries, better documented, and more overall libraries that solve more common problems.
People would be able to contribute to open-source well into the end of their careers, and not stop due to family life imcompatiblity.
If terminal ads would the price to pay for that, I would not mind at all having them.
Re: NPM Bans Terminal Ads
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
>, why is it so alarming to think that these maintainers might think of a clever idea like this to make a couple thousand bucks? [...] But instead of attacking the guy for trying, I really wish the discussion were focussed on how the community of open-source consumers can contribute back to the open source ecosystem You're (possibly unintentionally) distorting/diverting the issue. Nobody is criticizing open source ma…
I agree with the sentiment that shady things shouldn't be excused because "I'm an open source developer and I need money". You have a point there. Although: > decides to embed advertising such as "Try LINODE for 30 days!" in "README.md" Are you trying to say that this is also not acceptable? Our company sponsors a few open source npm projects, and all of the projects we sponsor have our logo in the README.md - is tha…
> Are you trying to say that this is also not acceptable?
Not OP but I think it's acceptable. I'm happy to see my favourite free (as in freedom) projects' developers being supported. If someone doesn't like it and if it's truly free software then anyone can fork it to remove that ad and we don't have a problem. That's how free software works, if you can't, then it's not free software. If one just won't fork and opposes what a free software project does then that's just entitlement.