Does google actually have a worse track record on shutdowns than the average startup? Random 10 person companies shut down all the time, but we seem to pay extra attention when it's a 10 person team inside Google.
Some people pay attention:
Sunsetting Hire
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Re: Sunsetting Hire
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gmail is 15 years old. Maps is ~15 years old (and was the combination of several acquisitions in the maps space: Keyhole, Where2, Zipdash, etc.) Chrome is 11 years old + extremely successful, but my point still stands.
Plus Chrome is not really a product as, to my knowledge, it generates zero income.
Firefox and Safari generate tons of money for Google via search referrals so Chrome would have billions in revenue if it was valued the same way.
Re: Sunsetting Hire
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I get involved with a random 10 person company, I know what I'm getting into. Using the google brand provides(provided) a sense of respectability and deeper pockets/longer term vision. Some users, I believe rightfully so, feel betrayed by google's lackadaisical approach to starting and shutting down projects. Especially when comparing the effort to market vs create a great product. Like google +, it was shoved d…
This all seems pretty fair to me. I know how to evaluate a startup's potential failure. Who's funding them? How much money do they have? How popular are they? How solid's the product? What are the founders like? Heck, for a lot of small startups, you can just ask to talk to the CEO if it's what it will take to close the deal. And I have a good idea of the conditions under which they'll throw in the towel. But Google…
Also - if I build a business around a 10 person startup, and they run into trouble or get acquired - there's at least some chance I could negotiate to buy/lease/rent the piece of IP and platform I'm relying on, or to reasonable expect to replicate the important bits of APIs I'm using by starting my own 10 person team.
I cannot ever expect to "negotiate with Google".
Re: Sunsetting Hire
#84Every time there's a post about a Google service being shut down, there are the usual remarks. I'm not saying they aren't deserved, but I'm curious if there's an alternate perspective here? Perhaps sunsetting these services ultimately leads to a more trim and lean Google, and better profit margins? Put another way, is it just the HN circle that is so put off by this?
The two positions don't seem to be in any conflict: I'm sure it is good for Google to shut these services down. I'm sure it does result in a leaner and more profitable company. The end result is still that Google cannot be trusted to keep any service running that isn't extremely profitable, and people who come to depend on these less-profitable services still end up orphaned.
This is the big difference for me.
I can much more likely rely on a 10 person startup who're turning over, say 50mil and clearing a few mil a year of profit after all expenses. That's a stable reliable business.
At Google, that's defined as "failure" and designed straight to the Google Graveyard.
Even a 1 person startup making a few hundred thou per year is a better bet for me - I'd sooner have Pinboard as a critical dependancy for my business than any shiny new Google toy like, say, Flutter...
Re: Sunsetting Hire
#85I wonder if Google has unintentionally created a self-reinforcing feedback loop where potential customers don’t trust the products will be supported for more than 24 months which leads to limited adoption which in turn leads to the products being canceled before 24 months. Pair that with other HN comments that have described a situation where it’s easier to get promoted from launching a product vs maintaining an exis…
100% yes. If it's not ad sales or search - I don't trust Google enough to base long term projects on it. _Maybe_ add gmail to that, perhaps. Possibly Suite (since at least they charge for it). For me at least, Google Cloud is still not quite emerged from "interesting, but not sure it'll be around long term yet" status. I'll use it as part of a multicloud architecture, or for prototypes/short-term projects. But I have…
After having the Inbox rug swept out from underneath my feet, I don't have a lot of trust about Gmail either.
Re: Sunsetting Hire
#86Can we just combine all services Google cuts in the last month into a mega post on the say 14th of every month?
https://killedbygoogle.com/
I remember clicking on that a while back on thinking there weren't that many products listed there. They must have filled in a lot of killed-off-projects because now I'm struck by what a large number of projects are in the graveyard.
Re: Sunsetting Hire
#87Phew ... tragedy averted. I ranted earlier about them [0]. We didn't use google Hire exactly for this reason. And they were more expensive than existing software while providing few features with less polish.
And yes, they had a more aggressive sales force pushing the product, who would cold call, play the discount game, etc.
This could have been a good value add to the G-Suite. Alas.
Re: Sunsetting Hire
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
After the Hangouts/Allo/Duo debacle, I've done exactly this. I'll never put time into a new Google product again. My projects don't use G Suites or Cloud, either. I can't be the only one.
I still use Hangouts for SMS, but the product is half assed at best. I wonder when Google will kill Hangouts for good.
They already announced that they're killing it. It was supposed to start sunsetting next month, with Voice/Fi users moved to Hangouts Chat.
I'm not holding my breath.
Re: Sunsetting Hire
#89calling it a "success" and then shutting it down? talk about talking out of both sides of the mouth.
Re: Sunsetting Hire
#90I wonder if Google has unintentionally created a self-reinforcing feedback loop where potential customers don’t trust the products will be supported for more than 24 months which leads to limited adoption which in turn leads to the products being canceled before 24 months. Pair that with other HN comments that have described a situation where it’s easier to get promoted from launching a product vs maintaining an exis…
These days I learn of most "new" Google products from the shutdown notice posted here on Hacker News.
Also if there is a Google product that does something I need then I will almost always pick a worse alternative because I don't want to deal with the hassle of moving when Google eventually shuts down their thing.