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A person has died from a vaping-related condition

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Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#121

Post by imgabe »

EpicEng wrote: post #110
imgabe wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not nearly as much of a win as not inhaling any smoke or vapor at all though. If vaping is a path to quitting altogether then that can be a win. If it's just a different vice then no. It's probably never going to be 100% safe to inhale foreign substances into your lungs

>Not nearly as much of a win as not inhaling any smoke or vapor at all though. Of course, but that's not a practical expectation for most smokers. We have decades of evidence showing that quitting is HARD and that many (most?) will fail. "Just stop" isn't a solution.

I used to smoke a pack a day and quit about 14 years ago using the patch. Quitting is ultimately the only solution. "Keep smoking" just means eventually dying from a smoking related illness.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#122

Post by otakucode »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #119
singingfish wrote: post #14

I'm guessing that if this really is associated with vaping then it's likely due to the limited regulation of the ingredients. Bad batch of VG/PG/nicotine? Some problematic flavouring? I think the best article I've found is at the BMJ: https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5228 - sorry, paywall. Very much inconslusive at the moment completely in the public health triage stage. Good idea to regulate it properly. I just…

From what I understand, some vaping liquids contain diacetyl, the culprit in "popcorn lung".

Your understanding is wrong. Cheap vape liquid from dodgy sources years ago used diacetyl. This was quickly discovered and vapers stopped purchasing it and it immediately became prominently listed on pretty much all products what proportion of vegetable glycerin and/or propylene glycol is being used and that those are the only ingredients aside from nicotine and flavoring. If anyone is still using diacetyl they are probably dodgy gas station disposables from China.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#123

Post by chrstphrhrt »

singingfish wrote: post #14

I'm guessing that if this really is associated with vaping then it's likely due to the limited regulation of the ingredients. Bad batch of VG/PG/nicotine? Some problematic flavouring? I think the best article I've found is at the BMJ: https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5228 - sorry, paywall. Very much inconslusive at the moment completely in the public health triage stage. Good idea to regulate it properly. I just…

I wish it were easier to distinguish vaping dry flower from liquids. They aren’t the same but I hate calling my pax a vape for some reason.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#124

Post by colechristensen »

jowsie wrote: post #108
colechristensen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely nobody can say with any amount of certainty. There are vaporizers and liquids to treat very cautiously. Many materials you could make a vaporizer and especially the heating assembly would include hazardous offgassing. Likewise you would want to be very careful about knowing the source and content of liquids. They are essentially unregulated. Strangers on the internet selling you ingest to make a small amount o…

The DynaVap is a dry herb vaporiser. No liquids involved. As such, I'd assume it's as safe as whatever you put in it.

The materials it is made of will still vaporize themselves a bit and what they are and how it is constructed still can have health impacts. Not that they will or won't, but that they could and it's hard to trust anyone.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#125

Post by otakucode »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #99
singingfish wrote: post #14

I'm guessing that if this really is associated with vaping then it's likely due to the limited regulation of the ingredients. Bad batch of VG/PG/nicotine? Some problematic flavouring? I think the best article I've found is at the BMJ: https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5228 - sorry, paywall. Very much inconslusive at the moment completely in the public health triage stage. Good idea to regulate it properly. I just…

This article has a sentence touching on it, but other sources that almost all these cases of vaping related hospitalizations are from vaping THC, so the sourcing/manufacturing of the product is highly suspect. Who knows what drug dealers are using.

It bothers me greatly to read so many news stories that have conspicuous absences of factual information. If there was a legitimately dangerous product on the market it would be critically important to share exactly what products, brands, etc are affected in what regions.

Imagine if we woke up to news stories saying eggs were contaminated by salmonella. And nothing else. Just a blanket fearmongering piece about eggs across the board with no mention of which producer in which region was affected, no information about what timespan the affected eggs were purchased in, nothing. Just 'people are getting sick from eggs and doctors cant guarantee you aren't next!'

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#126

Post by EdwardDiego »

otakucode wrote: post #122
EdwardDiego wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, some vaping liquids contain diacetyl, the culprit in "popcorn lung".

Your understanding is wrong. Cheap vape liquid from dodgy sources years ago used diacetyl. This was quickly discovered and vapers stopped purchasing it and it immediately became prominently listed on pretty much all products what proportion of vegetable glycerin and/or propylene glycol is being used and that those are the only ingredients aside from nicotine and flavoring. If anyone is still using diacetyl they are p…

> Your understanding is wrong.

According to vape vendors in my country, it's not.

https://vapourium.nz/blogs/vaping-101/whats-the-story-with-d...

"Diketones such as diacetyl, acetoin and acetyl propionyl are present in a number of these flavourings as they add an authentic buttery and creamy taste to the e-liquids produced by many manufacturers."

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#127

Post by rhacker »

I don't smoke or vape. I think the world is way better off vaping than smoking. I certainly do hope whatever caused this is discovered. I would hate to see more cigarettes light up again.

I'm guessing (and hoping) that more regulation will come down on the vaping industry to make sure whatever oils or additives are controlled so that we can prevent this from happening with future additives they discover.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#128

Post by taneq »

imgabe wrote: post #76
taneq wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think switching from something which WILL kill you to something which might have as-yet-undiscovered long term health implications is an absolute win.

Not nearly as much of a win as not inhaling any smoke or vapor at all though. If vaping is a path to quitting altogether then that can be a win. If it's just a different vice then no. It's probably never going to be 100% safe to inhale foreign substances into your lungs

Sure, but that's like arguing that cars shouldn't have airbags because in rare circumstances airbags can cause deaths, and riding in a car will never be 100% safe.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#129

Post by asveikau »

otakucode wrote: post #122
EdwardDiego wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, some vaping liquids contain diacetyl, the culprit in "popcorn lung".

Your understanding is wrong. Cheap vape liquid from dodgy sources years ago used diacetyl. This was quickly discovered and vapers stopped purchasing it and it immediately became prominently listed on pretty much all products what proportion of vegetable glycerin and/or propylene glycol is being used and that those are the only ingredients aside from nicotine and flavoring. If anyone is still using diacetyl they are p…

They said "some". Your comment refers to the possibility that some may still, as in the gas station. That fits the criteria for "some".

The idea that conscious consumers reading ingredient labels will solve 100% of such a problem is also kind of silly. Look at the obesity problem as an example of how well labeling works - it's possible to read the labels and be careful about your food intake, but most do not.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#130

Post by [deleted] »

floatingatoll wrote: post #60
buildzr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a vape guy, but as far as I'm aware no combustion reaction is occurring, essentially it's boiling the substance at a far lower temperature than it would burn. Now, whether glycol and such are good things to inhale is another question but I haven't seen any studies pointing to significant issues with these directly, so I'm hesitant to jump the the conclusion suggested here.

The conclusion is “we should consider whether propylene glycol inhalation can lead to disorders”, not “we know whether it does”.

[deleted]
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