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A person has died from a vaping-related condition

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Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#101

Post by WillPostForFood »

imgabe wrote: post #76
taneq wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think switching from something which WILL kill you to something which might have as-yet-undiscovered long term health implications is an absolute win.

Not nearly as much of a win as not inhaling any smoke or vapor at all though. If vaping is a path to quitting altogether then that can be a win. If it's just a different vice then no. It's probably never going to be 100% safe to inhale foreign substances into your lungs

Unless you are breathing out of oxygen tank, breathing is always loaded with foreign substances.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#103

Post by gumby »

I’d worry about the excipients (e.g. PGA). Several molecular weights are deemed GRAS (“Generally Recognized As Safe”) thus their use is unregulated (of course as bulk polymers, “molecular weight” is really just the fat part of the distribution).

The problem is at point of use: the vehicle is vaporized by a simple heated nichrome wire. This fractionates and agglomerates the polymers resulting in a completely different distribution of polymer weights. The results of which aren’t being analyzed.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#104

Post by finnthehuman »

james_s_tayler wrote: post #50
Clubber wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when the news constantly threw out countless articles about cell phones causing brain cancer? Remember, fear sells ads, so we should also be very skeptical of articles like these.

Because skepticism turns out to sometimes be unwarranted we should be skeptical of skepticism? You can't have it both ways.

Parent poster is talking about fearmongering. Fearmongering isn't skepticism.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#105

Post by leetcrew »

decebalus1 wrote: post #30
beardedman wrote: post #27

So I've been saying something like this for years now. HOW do we know something is not going wrong without any long term/clinical data (ESPECIALLY around these custom flavours that people sometimes roll out themselves)? I think it's completely presumptuous when people tout vaping as being much safer than cigarettes. We didn't all wake up one day knowing smoking was bad - it was a long road filled with politics, scien…

> Vaping is in its infancy and already people's mantras sound like old Camel commercials. I agree. I'm one of the people who managed to quit smoking using vaping and at one point I had some sort of awakening. After vaping for a couple of years I stopped and asked myself what the hell am I doing? I had countless mods, juices, RDAs, RTAs, etc.. and was a frequent contributor to the electronic_cigarette subreddit. I rep…

you make some good points here, especially regarding the wide range of quality available in the vape market (gas station cig-a-likes vs rda with coils and juice you made yourself) and the echo chamber of r/electronic_cigarette, but I do want to point out that nic salts are not some scary weird thing.

alkaloids (like nicotine) all have freebase and salt forms. usually the freebase has a lower boiling point, while the salt is more stable and will dissolve more readily in water. neither is inherently more dangerous than the other, but can yield different levels of efficiency depending how the drug is administered. I'm not sure exactly what advantage salts have over freebase for vaping; I would think the lower boiling point would be advantageous.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#106

Post by RhysU »

dmix wrote: post #17
macintux wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to get enthusiastic about something deadly and noxious just because it’s less noxious than something truly awful. Walking behind someone who was vaping recently is one of the least pleasant experiences I’ve had for a while.

A whole lot of society and social policy is about lesser of evils. It's about being realistic and practical. Which is something far more policy should be conscious of, instead of some idealistic perfect world you wish to impose on other people. Not to mention people could just as quickly harm themselves going to a 7/11 every day to eat carbs or driving a motorcycle or drinking alcohol or engaging in 'extreme' sports.…

> Not to mention people could just as quickly harm themselves going to a 7/11 every day to eat carbs or driving a motorcycle or drinking alcohol or engaging in 'extreme' sports.

Motorcycling feels odd in that list of otherwise self-inflicted harms.

Sure, one can run into brick wall in a solo accident. But, often it's someone else that kills the motorcyclist.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#107

Post by jowsie »

TomGullen wrote: post #64
madaxe_again wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vape - I buy only high quality liquids from a reputable manufacturer who extensively test all of their recipes. I find my lung function is 100x better than when I smoked. I did, however, once buy a THC liquid, from a “reputable” dark web dealer. It was bloody awful - found myself retching and hacking for days after a few small tokes, and it destroyed both the coil and the tank - sticky residue, carbon, bleurgh. So.…

Me and my girlfriend exclusively vape vampire vape juices, how do we go about researching if the manufacturer is reputable and test all their recipes?

If it's the Vampire Vapes I'm thinking of, they host all their safety sheets, as part of TPD compliance.

https://www.vampirevape.co.uk/safety-data

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#108

Post by jowsie »

colechristensen wrote: post #61
mikevm wrote: post #56

Is vaping using things like DynaVap safer than other types of vaporizers?

Likely nobody can say with any amount of certainty. There are vaporizers and liquids to treat very cautiously. Many materials you could make a vaporizer and especially the heating assembly would include hazardous offgassing. Likewise you would want to be very careful about knowing the source and content of liquids. They are essentially unregulated. Strangers on the internet selling you ingest to make a small amount o…

The DynaVap is a dry herb vaporiser. No liquids involved. As such, I'd assume it's as safe as whatever you put in it.

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#109

Post by EpicEng »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #99
singingfish wrote: post #14

I'm guessing that if this really is associated with vaping then it's likely due to the limited regulation of the ingredients. Bad batch of VG/PG/nicotine? Some problematic flavouring? I think the best article I've found is at the BMJ: https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5228 - sorry, paywall. Very much inconslusive at the moment completely in the public health triage stage. Good idea to regulate it properly. I just…

This article has a sentence touching on it, but other sources that almost all these cases of vaping related hospitalizations are from vaping THC, so the sourcing/manufacturing of the product is highly suspect. Who knows what drug dealers are using.

iirc THC was being used by a number of people affected, but they haven't yet gone as far as saying that "almost all these cases of vaping related hospitalizations are from vaping THC".

Re: A person has died from a vaping-related condition

#110

Post by EpicEng »

imgabe wrote: post #76
taneq wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think switching from something which WILL kill you to something which might have as-yet-undiscovered long term health implications is an absolute win.

Not nearly as much of a win as not inhaling any smoke or vapor at all though. If vaping is a path to quitting altogether then that can be a win. If it's just a different vice then no. It's probably never going to be 100% safe to inhale foreign substances into your lungs

>Not nearly as much of a win as not inhaling any smoke or vapor at all though.

Of course, but that's not a practical expectation for most smokers. We have decades of evidence showing that quitting is HARD and that many (most?) will fail. "Just stop" isn't a solution.

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