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Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely the latter - people trying to convince others that their views on war, or abortion, or taxes, or political party are the correct ones. These are also people who are intelligent, educated, and quite arrogant, so the fireworks were pretty spectacular.

And this was common workplace discussion!? This seems like a disaster waiting to happen. I don’t know why you’d want to introduce the divisiveness of politics to your workplace.

Generally not out in the open, but on internal groups (message boards) or email chains. Keep in mind the vast majority of people working at Google don't care - the people looking to engage politically are a minority group and found each other on the intranet.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#632
post #70

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Exactly. I find it quite bizarre when some folks suggest divorcing from politics as if the possibility exists. Everything is political. Even this very conversation is political.

> Everything is political. Math is not political.

This is just not true. Math is neither objective or apolitical.

I recommend reading "Descartes Dream."

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#633

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I don't think this is true anymore. Even war doesn't impact my life. We've been at war almost 20 years now and the only difference it's made in my life is airport trips are more annoying. And even if war did impact my life more directly, I don't see how discussing it at work would be helpful in any way.

Living in Europe and being a bit closer to the war zones, I can tell you it has affected my life in a large number of ways. It is a big reason why a lot of my voting in the US is for whoever seems more anti-war (within reason).

I also vote anti-war. Would you mind sharing some tangible examples of how it's affected your life? I'm not looking for a debate, I'm genuinely curious.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a fine approach, but unfortunately politics creeps into more and more aspects of life, hardly any topic remains apolitical. Like that quote "you may not be interested in war, but ..."

I don't think this is true anymore. Even war doesn't impact my life. We've been at war almost 20 years now and the only difference it's made in my life is airport trips are more annoying. And even if war did impact my life more directly, I don't see how discussing it at work would be helpful in any way.

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#635

I worked at Google for quite a while, 2005-2013, and even then, the internal political discussion was pretty toxic, but a lot smaller in scope since there are far fewer people. There were definitely groups meant for discussing politics, and loudmouths like me willingly participated in those - however, it was very uncivil. There was a majority view in the company, and if anyone didn't agree with the majority view, the…

I worked at Google for quite a while, 2005-2013, and even then, the internal political discussion was pretty toxic, but a lot smaller in scope since there are far fewer people. It sounds like the work culture at Google has rediscovered the emergent factors which gave rise to the traditional cultural strictures against talking about money, politics, and religion. Good science is repeatable. Given that Google is arguab…

> traditional cultural strictures against talking about money, politics, and religion

That is not a particularly widespread tradition globally or historically. And I personally think everyone should be incredibly skeptical of it.

I've never met anyone with power who followed this tradition, and plenty who are kept powerless by the always-one-sided application of these traditions.

These subjects are difficult to discuss because they are important, I find it far easier to believe that this toxicity comes from default of not talking to your family/friends/community about some of most important aspects of your life.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#636
post #549

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My tenure overlapped ('06 - '10) and the discussions were lively. There were (and probably still are) interesting meta-terms like 'centathread' which was a topic that had received >= 100 replies (the gmail threading limit at the time). That said, the change in policy (what is cited at least) reads a bit like "Let's create air cover for management actions to separate trouble makers from the company." Where trouble mak…

There’s a decent chance this centuries old authoritarian method, which is more like millennia old, is actually the best way of dealing with it. Humans are more or less the same as a few millennia ago. Our technology is more advanced, we’ve more or less covered every corner of the planet, we have birthed billions of humans and built millions of organizations of every stripe, and dealt with as many management issues as…

I don't disagree, but I will contrast that with my later experience at IBM (when they bought Blekko).

IBM had at the time 400,000+ employees, so more than four times the employee base of Google. IBM is over a hundred years old at this point so have been doing this about five times longer than Google has.

In IBM's case they came at it from the opposite direction. Fifty years ago there was practically zero horizontal communication in the ranks and they were interested in increasing that to get better dispersal of thoughts and ideas throughout the company. As a result they were deploying and encouraging a sort of internal social network to improve cross flow and get more things out.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "privilege" here is that banning discussions about politics can be used as a tool to silence the opposition of the current status quo. By definition there are two camps of opposition to the current status quo - one to the left of it, and one to the right of it. Would you accept both sides of it being allowed to speak freely in tech companies, or just the side you are on?

> By definition there are two camps of opposition to the current status quo - one to the left of it, and one to the right of it. That is not true “by definition”. It would be true invariably (but still not by definition unless the conditions were also) if political variation were unidimensional, linear, and unbounded in actual (not merely potential) range.

It's pretty clear that the main, salient, tribal divide is between left and right. But I will agree to disagree there.

My key point is that if you open up the floor to politics so people can try and change the status quo, you open up the possibilities that people will want to change the status quo in a way that makes it even further away from where you think it should be.

When people advocate political discussion at work because they are against the status quo, I don't think that's a scenario they consider.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#638
post #499

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These are all very easy to discuss at work without politics. You ask, "Do you have any dietary restrictions? If so you should make sure to read the menu closely, it'll tell you what the dish contains." There, now I know as much as I need to about my coworker's diet. We're here to work and if you're going to be a member of a _diverse_ community with a shared goal you're going to need to accept that other people live t…

But you can't go into depth very far on any of these without reaching political topics, can you?

Sure you can. You can have an attitude of tolerance, of acceptance, and embrace different opinions/stances. Judge a little less, worry a little less about what others do.

Our culture has become a toxic stew caused by everyone forgetting to mind their own business; partially because people think that because politics does have a part of everything people do (hence the etymology of the term), that it gives them the right to control others. Fascism is the end result.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#639
If they can actually pull this off (which I doubt), I might consider working there again. I had an offer from them last Dec and turned it down, in part, because this shit is borderline unbearable on the inside (I worked at Google in the past when it was less political, and it was barely tolerable even then).

A good number of people do nothing but stir shit up on the internal forums and mailing lists. They also seem to be "untouchable" because stirring shit typically takes the form of grievance peddling or white knighting, so if you just let them go, their (rather extensive) cliques would give you hell for "discrimination" and write petitions, go to the press, etc, etc, as we've seen after a few higher profile departures over the past couple of years. You don't want to be called a misogynist or racist for disagreeing with literally anything they say, do you?

It'd be good for the leadership to grow some gender-appropriate gonads, and refocus the company on the business side of things for a change. Activism is fine, just not on the company's time, and not when it impacts the business or other employees. Just like I don't want to hear what church (if any) you go to, or what gender you prefer in bed, I also don't want to know what your political preferences are. Nor do I like to feel obliged to share your opinion any of those things, even if you think you're "right". I'm trying to work. You're getting in the way.

This should apply equally to all: as a conservative, I don't want to hear about conservative issues at work either. I want to hear about work, and _only_ work.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked there for a similar length of time, but more recent (2012 - early 2019). The internal political discourse over that time definitely mirrored the rest of the world: becoming increasingly heated and divisive during 2016 and largely escalating since. On the whole, it felt like it pushed the company in a positive direction --- internal discussions mirroring #metoo led to more visibility of sexual harassment and…

> The discourse around the James Damore memo, as divisive as it was, felt like it still led to a broader understanding of the negative perspectives women in tech had to deal with constantly. Damore was fired for his contributions to this "conversation". Hardly just. > particularly the ones who felt it was worth staying and using their influence internally to push Google toward creating a more just world. How about ju…

Search is an intensely political issue, we're just used to ignoring that particular aspect.
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