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Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#181
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"transgender, lesbian" Wait what

Your gender is not related to your sexual orientation.

no but the way we talk about it is. we typically use vocabulary to describe orientation that is relative to gender identity. that is, a person who is attracted to men is gay if they identify as a man or straight if they identify as a woman.

that said, "transgender lesbian" shouldn't be too hard to parse unless you've been living under a rock for the last fifteen years.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#182
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that depends what you regard as important. Many of the things I'd guess you regard as important I don't, and vice-versa. Who decides? Why are you the arbiter of what's "obviously" important? That's a fallacious appeal to common knowledge.

I suppose one would have to debate these topics to figure that out.

A debate doesn't mean that the losing side is no longer to espouse its views.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#183
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If timewasting was the problem, wouldn't they be clamping down on all unproductive conversation, not merely the political? I mean, wasting 10 minutes is wasting 10 minutes, whether I'm talking about politics or football or TV.

But one is just unproductive (you being idle) the other one is counterproductive (you upset others and divert their attention) and multiply the counter-productivity.

Yeah, I've met people with views so different from mine that our professional relationship was at stake.

Once it was a woman who seriously thought white men needed to be excluded from things to make up for all the time they oppressed everyone else. It was like socially-acceptable maliciousness.

When you talk politics, you risk having people reveal extreme views that really accomplish nothing but put a wedge in an environment what's supposed to be collaborative.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I am transgender, lesbian, asexual and polyromantic, and none of these things have I ever had so much as a discussion about at my office, nor have they sparked any 'political' discussion. (I work at one of the major 5 banks in Canada).

"transgender, lesbian" Wait what

For some people their sexual tastes are their only source of identity and personality, so they go all the way to make sure they're unique.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#186
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, how should a gay man respect a colleague who honestly thinks that homosexuality should be punished with death. Do you think that's a good example of the kind of things Google staff debate about?

I tried to pick an example that is both held by people in the world today, thus it couldn't be easily dismissed as unrealistic, while at the same time not being something people here would actually debate, so as to not sidetrack the point.

> I tried to pick an example that is both held by people in the world today, thus it couldn't be easily dismissed as unrealistic

It is very easy to dismiss a "death to homosexuals" discussion among Google employees as unrealistic.

> so as to not sidetrack the point.

Hrm, I understand that logic, but it seems like an attempt to frame disagreement with the current popular political view in the most extreme way.

Maybe that's not what you intended, but since that is a commonly employed technique ("everyone who doesn't disagree with me is a nazi") it does seem that way.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#187
I worked at Google for quite a while, 2005-2013, and even then, the internal political discussion was pretty toxic, but a lot smaller in scope since there are far fewer people.

There were definitely groups meant for discussing politics, and loudmouths like me willingly participated in those - however, it was very uncivil. There was a majority view in the company, and if anyone didn't agree with the majority view, the majority engaged in heckling, ridicule, etc. It was already becoming an echo chamber, and as the majority grew, their tactics grew more petty and vicious. However, this was expected in the politics groups, and you knowingly entered that fray.

What seems to be happening a lot lately is that politics are spilling over into large, global mailing lists which target a whole geographic region, so many people get involved, and when a company has 200k employees and contractors, you will find some outliers in there who will pick nasty fights.

It only makes sense that they're cutting down on something that has turned toxic. It's a bit disappointing to hear, since I personally enjoyed the occasional, honest discussion with smart people of other viewpoints - these good discussions made the much larger number of ridiculous ones, bearable.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#188
post #29

I'm not at Google but my guess is that the number of Chinese employees and the current protests in HongKong might create some internal political fights.

Being from China, which bans Google , while working at Google and arguing in favor of China's policies toward Hong Kong must make for some severe cognitive dissonance.

Not just being from there. Google has offices in Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Taipei, among others. [1]

But I expect the China offices are pretty well firewalled off for security reasons.

[1] https://careers.google.com/locations/

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#189
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If timewasting was the problem, wouldn't they be clamping down on all unproductive conversation, not merely the political? I mean, wasting 10 minutes is wasting 10 minutes, whether I'm talking about politics or football or TV.

But one is just unproductive (you being idle) the other one is counterproductive (you upset others and divert their attention) and multiply the counter-productivity.

I think this is a major point, because even when you deal with really strong sports rivalries, it seems to be mostly play acting like they hate each other's teams. Actual hurt feelings are pretty rare expect for anger at particular events in a game (for example, bad ref call). With politics, it hits something much deeper in people and gets people to be side tracked for far longer, as well as possibly causing reductions in mood that translate to worse productivity.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#190

It was ok until it started impacting the business... Like when the workers prevented the sale of AI technology to the people droning wedding parties in the Middle East. Yawn.

By the way googlers, consider joining a union! The man can't take away your rights if you fight back collectively!
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