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Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#601

Post by joshuamorton »

fortran77 wrote: post #455
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression has not been that the memo is when political discussions turned toxic, but merely the first time it very publicly breached the sacred wall of non-disclosure with the outside world. Prior to that, most everyone seemed content to be upset with each other internally.

And they never punished the woman who leaked that internal memo. I thought that memo was foolish and short-sighted. I don't agree with it. However, it would have been better solved by a manager first asking him "do you really think it's a good idea to post this at work?" and having him tone it down than trying to publicly shame him and get him fired. Google picked the wrong side on that. They should have made an exam…

You're making things up: the leaker was, afaik, never identified. Certainly not publicly. Nothing says they were a woman, except you.

As someone who vehemently disagree a with damore and is glad he was fired, I'd also prefer it if the leaker was fired, but it seems that I'll never know if that happened.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#602

Post by dragonwriter »

lacampbell wrote: post #595
t0astbread wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "privilege" here is that banning discussions about politics can be used as a tool to silence the opposition of the current status quo. * edit: changed "competition" to "opposition"

The "privilege" here is that banning discussions about politics can be used as a tool to silence the opposition of the current status quo. By definition there are two camps of opposition to the current status quo - one to the left of it, and one to the right of it. Would you accept both sides of it being allowed to speak freely in tech companies, or just the side you are on?

> By definition there are two camps of opposition to the current status quo - one to the left of it, and one to the right of it.

That is not true “by definition”. It would be true invariably (but still not by definition unless the conditions were also) if political variation were unidimensional, linear, and unbounded in actual (not merely potential) range.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#603

Post by gwbas1c »

threeseed wrote: post #551
gwbas1c wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shortly before the memo, there were stories and comments in HN about problems inside Google. I vaguely remember a story about someone in HR getting fired because they didn't pull a white male out of the running for a job. (The details are too fuzzy at this point.)

If you are going to bring up controversial anecdotes like this the onus is on you to actually have clear facts behind it.

This isn't that kind of message board

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#604

Post by einhverfr »

cco wrote: post #499
new2628 wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I surely enjoy wild associations as much as the next guy, but I meant more pedestrian topics such as: - are you eating meat or are you vegetarian? - do you take a car to work or ride a bike or take public transportation? - do you drink tap water or bottled water? - do you send your kids to private or public school? Now try discussing any of these in depth "without politics".

These are all very easy to discuss at work without politics. You ask, "Do you have any dietary restrictions? If so you should make sure to read the menu closely, it'll tell you what the dish contains." There, now I know as much as I need to about my coworker's diet. We're here to work and if you're going to be a member of a _diverse_ community with a shared goal you're going to need to accept that other people live t…

But you can't go into depth very far on any of these without reaching political topics, can you?

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#605

Post by [deleted] »

malvosenior wrote: post #479
jgunsch wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked there for a similar length of time, but more recent (2012 - early 2019). The internal political discourse over that time definitely mirrored the rest of the world: becoming increasingly heated and divisive during 2016 and largely escalating since. On the whole, it felt like it pushed the company in a positive direction --- internal discussions mirroring #metoo led to more visibility of sexual harassment and…

> The discourse around the James Damore memo, as divisive as it was, felt like it still led to a broader understanding of the negative perspectives women in tech had to deal with constantly. Damore was fired for his contributions to this "conversation". Hardly just. > particularly the ones who felt it was worth staying and using their influence internally to push Google toward creating a more just world. How about ju…

[deleted]

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#606

Post by gwbas1c »

commandlinefan wrote: post #458
gwbas1c wrote: post #92

Ever since the infamous "diversity memo," (which I disagree with,) I've gotten the impression that political discussions at Google turned toxic. A well run company includes people with diverse political views points. A workplace that's hostile to anyone who leans right or leans left ultimately hurts diversity.

> diversity memo Are you referring to James Damore's memo?

Yes

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#607

Post by heroHACK17 »

oppositelock wrote: post #187

I worked at Google for quite a while, 2005-2013, and even then, the internal political discussion was pretty toxic, but a lot smaller in scope since there are far fewer people. There were definitely groups meant for discussing politics, and loudmouths like me willingly participated in those - however, it was very uncivil. There was a majority view in the company, and if anyone didn't agree with the majority view, the…

> What seems to be happening a lot lately is that politics are spilling over into large, global mailing lists which target a whole geographic region, so many people get involved, and when a company has 200k employees and contractors, you will find some outliers in there who will pick nasty fights.

Really good point here. One could argue the same for society as a whole - not just companies with global mailing lists.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#608

Post by ed312 »

fortran77 wrote: post #553

This is an eye opener. > [Google] employees discussed at length [on internal message boards] whether Trump’s win meant it’s time for a violent revolution. “How do people cope with this?” one employee wrote. “I’ve never been part of a military or war effort before. … I don’t know how useful I’ll be.” It's about time Google tells people to take their political revolution talk somewhere else other than company internal…

Also, that's just plain old sedition because you don't like who won the democratic election.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#609

Post by username90 »

crooked-v wrote: post #585
username90 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is 6 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.

The joke only works using math with a base of 9 or above and in a language where '8' and 'ate' are homophones, making the use of it biased against people who use other languages or counting systems.

A joke not being funny for one group doesn't mean that it is political. And if people are offended over not understanding a joke they would be offended over not understanding a sentence, meaning that every utterance ever is offensive since there is always people who doesn't speak your language. You are absurd here and only strengthened my view that people who say "everything is political" are just trying to sow discord.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#610

Post by einhverfr »

tidepod12 wrote: post #490
new2628 wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I surely enjoy wild associations as much as the next guy, but I meant more pedestrian topics such as: - are you eating meat or are you vegetarian? - do you take a car to work or ride a bike or take public transportation? - do you drink tap water or bottled water? - do you send your kids to private or public school? Now try discussing any of these in depth "without politics".

I'm trying to say this as politely as possible, but... are you serious? If you seriously cannot have conversations at this level without them turning into political discussions, you really need to reflect on your conversational habits. It is absolutely not normal or healthy if you can't talk about drinking water without it turning political. My SO is a vegetarian. It comes up a lot , both with my friends (who are all…

Can you discuss with your SO why the vegetarianism without getting into political questions like:

    1.  What are our obligations to organisms we eat?
    2.  What are our obligations to each other?
    3.  Is vegetarianism an obligation?  Why or why not?
I don't see how those are not political issues.
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