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In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

nytimes.com

121–130 of 501 posts

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#121
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solving community problems come with community sacrifices. I'm a big proponent of housing first, drug rehab second. It is exponentially harder to get clean without housing and a support network. Decriminalizing drug addiction is a good step in that direction IMO. I think another side of this coin though is we need to bring back institutionalization of mental health care. Implemented today it would be vastly different…

Housing first is effective for people who want our idea of a 'normal lifestyle' I think people in this thread are asking you to question your assumption- do you think every drug addict on the west coast wants to hold down a job and live our normal life?

People don't want to be drug addicts and live a poor existence to feed a habit. They have problems, they use the drugs to medicate or fit in, the problems compound with drug use, so they use more to deal with the problems more. They are also ostracized by communities which nobody likes as we are social creatures. The level of that social exclusion probably depends a lot on their current level of wealth. People like having shelter and their physical needs met and while they might not necessarily want normal either, I'd argue a big part of that is more that they have poor coping strategies and don't now how to cope with normal. There will always be people who don't fall into certain strategies for combating homelessness and drug addiction, but this is a much better approach than doing what amounts to nothing.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and shame everyone who dares to complain. And then watch at they turn on you by quietly voting for your opponents in greater and greater numbers as the problem worsens.

Why don't you offer an alternative solution then? Throwing the homeless people in jail is ineffective and immoral. If your solution is drug treatment programs, great, but then don't argue against raising taxes to pay for them.

We need low cost low security jails for people who commit property crimes. Basically just wall off a few square miles and throw them in there left to their own devices.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#123

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

Supervised consumption sites would go a long way toward fixing the needle problem.

Unfortunately, the people that such initiatives are aimed at happen to be junkies. They will consume whenever and wherever they feel like it, just as many of them will steal from the most convenient target when they need more money for a fix. Further, the optics of state-sanctioned drug use sites are pretty bad, even in the most liberal of cities.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#124
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all the people who aren't running around with pitchforks who have been diverted out of the addiction to prison pipeline? Would you rather be paying $100,000+ a year/person to judge and jail them for the crime of being addicted while poor? (I've yet to see people entering that pipeline for the crime of being addicted while rich.)

False dilemma. We can mandate them by court order to attend treatment programs. There are ways of helping petty criminals that don't involve locking them in a box 24/7.

That’s just crazy talk. Next you are going suggest free healthcare for all or something communist like that.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#125
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I mean, without statistics his anecdotes are meaningless. It's a common thing to complain here in Seattle, but having lived in the Midwest for most of my life I know what true violence looks like and feels like. I don't hear guns every night like I did in KC. There aren't 600 murders a year like in Chicago. I'm not saying Seattle is perfect but I've never felt safer. And I live in the Central District, which is…

[flagged]

You’re minimising the throwing hot coffee in a toddlers face.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#126
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Junkies and other folks who throw needles on the street when there’s a trash can like 5 feet away will actually make appointments to stop at these consumption sites? Who pays for this? The city of Seattle makes a mess because of their extremist policies of not enforcing laws so let’s raise taxes to make up for it?

Please cite how Seattle's policy of not locking people up to rot in prison is extremist. You had a viable argument right up until that point! Edit: Thanks for the bot downvotes! Going from +2 to -1 in the span of a minute on two separate comments is a bit of a red flag :P

OK, design a punishment that will deter people from stealing. I’m not opposed to caning but for some reason the country refuses to do it.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supervised consumption sites would go a long way toward fixing the needle problem.

We have safe injection sites up here in Vancouver, you still find used needles lying around everywhere, depending where you go, only you also find the small saline packs and disposable spoons from the injection sites lying around with the used needles. The police don't really seem to care. I've watched a couple of officers find a small pile of used needles at one of the skytrain stations, they laughed to each other s…

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Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people say things like this, I do have to wonder if they've ever lived in a city before. Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s. There is just a certain amount of crime and drug use that will always exist in the big city. No amount of 'tough on crime' policing will make it go away.

"It's better now than it was during the worst crime wave in American history -- the 1980s." You're not wrong, but you're also not setting a very high bar. I think it's important that cities be safe, livable places. Seattle still is, for the most part. But ask some of your younger, single female friends where they will and will not go at night, and you may be surprised that it includes a large number of neighborhoods.

I'm a married 30s man and I wouldn't go to many Seattle downtown neighborhoods at night.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#129
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wars can also be ended by surrender, which Vancouver BC did. I understand Seattle’s approach has been similar: Grant de facto immunity to homeless people committing petty crime, stop all police enforcement of drug laws, and shame everyone who dares to complain.

> and shame everyone who dares to complain. And then watch at they turn on you by quietly voting for your opponents in greater and greater numbers as the problem worsens.

That's pretty much Santa Cruz California and it hasn't happened yet.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#130
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet "Moms for Seattle" can't be bothered to take a real photo of homelessness affecting Seattle's parks :c Those advocating for harsher handling of homelessness in Seattle have repeatedly shown themselves to be incompetent and callous. It'd be great if they could make an effort, like actually voting, rather than phoning it in and throwing money at blatantly photoshopped mailers.

Yeah, this minimizing comment and ones like it are one of the reasons I left Seattle to live in Cape Town, a city with one of the highest percentage of homeless people in the world. Guess what? I feel safer in parks here. Volunteer park is fine, and some of the parks up the hill are fine, but I've seen multiple children get pricked with used needless and I've been threatened by people in the park. I've been on the bu…

We have real issues in Seattle, but having frank conversations about it has been quite troublesome, too many people want to talk about feels rather than facts, leading to local satire like this: http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most...

Seattle Parks & Recreation has started adding Park Ambassadors to address what you experienced, and it has significantly improved the downtown parks: https://downtownseattle.org/about/careers/park-ambassador-pa...

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