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In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

nytimes.com

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Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#21

Post by fzeroracer »

throwaway827364 wrote: post #9
allana wrote: post #3

As much as the Seattle Chamber of Commerce and the local Sinclair affiliates might scream that Seattle is wrecked, people and businesses are still moving here, our economy is growing, and massive redevelopment is occuring. One other place to pay attention to is Shelton, WA, they have a very interesting communal approach to homelessness and providing services, which has built a strong community that wooed some of my f…

People move here and the economy is growing because of tech. Do any of these employers support the city of Seattle’s policies on allowing people to openly shoot up in the streets?

The fact is that visibility is the first step to recovery. You can arrest them, hide them or try to move them around but it doesn't change the fact that they exist. It just makes it so you don't have to look at the problem, which is really the American thing. Better to hide the problem than solve it.

These kind of efforts take time to take root. As people do things like this in public, that means more opportunity for social services to reach out and try to solve the problem. In 10-15 years you'll see drug usage rates drop as addicts can seek help for their problem without vilification or risk to having their lives destroyed.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#22

Post by allana »

taurath wrote: post #14
dymk wrote: post #7

I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. It absolutely has had a negative impact on public safety here. They're offered public services, and they refuse them, because many of our "tiny villages" have no-drug-use policies, which they will not abide by. My city has one of the worst problems with repeat violent drug addicts in the nation (perhaps aside from the Bay) and yet we refuse to jail…

Do you have any statistics to back that up (violence rate)? I don’t feel like anecdotes make for good conversation here.

They don't have statistics to back their position, this attitude of not working from the data we have is such an issue that it has become local satire in Seattle: http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most...

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#23

Post by daenz »

allana wrote: post #3

As much as the Seattle Chamber of Commerce and the local Sinclair affiliates might scream that Seattle is wrecked, people and businesses are still moving here, our economy is growing, and massive redevelopment is occuring. One other place to pay attention to is Shelton, WA, they have a very interesting communal approach to homelessness and providing services, which has built a strong community that wooed some of my f…

>people and businesses are still moving here, our economy is growing, and massive redevelopment is occuring.

Yes, despite these massive social problems. The economic growth is not caused by drug decriminalization, so I'm not sure why you're loosely associating the two. One uncorrelated bad thing is not seen as the "price" for another uncorrelated good thing.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#24

Post by empath75 »

allana wrote: post #18
taurath wrote: post #4

Interesting take on the situation - one key difference is I don’t feel any less safe now than 10 years ago walking around. I DO see more “open” use, and people walking around obviously on something, especially by the homeless (which makes sense even if they’re not using at a higher level). I don’t see the social services much though. IMO they could use more visibility. The prevailing opinion seems like we do “nothing…

We don't have sufficent funding of social services to provide navigation teams and counselors to all of the visibly homeless (those you see on the street), never mind the thousands living in their cars in Seattle (the invisible homeless). Seattle is doing what it can, but we need state and federal action to go further. We can't single handedly solve the severe wealth stratification that is worsening day by day :c

or you know, Amazon and Microsoft could throw in some cash.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#26

Post by tjr225 »

taurath wrote: post #14
dymk wrote: post #7

I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. It absolutely has had a negative impact on public safety here. They're offered public services, and they refuse them, because many of our "tiny villages" have no-drug-use policies, which they will not abide by. My city has one of the worst problems with repeat violent drug addicts in the nation (perhaps aside from the Bay) and yet we refuse to jail…

Do you have any statistics to back that up (violence rate)? I don’t feel like anecdotes make for good conversation here.

Yeah I mean, without statistics his anecdotes are meaningless. It's a common thing to complain here in Seattle, but having lived in the Midwest for most of my life I know what true violence looks like and feels like. I don't hear guns every night like I did in KC. There aren't 600 murders a year like in Chicago. I'm not saying Seattle is perfect but I've never felt safer.

And I live in the Central District, which is one of the more violent neighborhoods.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#27

Post by throwaway827364 »

This article is disingenuous at best. I don’t support the war on drugs, but Seattle’s handling of the situation isn’t close to a model for other cities. As someone who lived here all my life, it’s been a complete disaster. I’m frankly really disappointed in the NYTimes for publishing this garbage.

He doesn’t go into the negatives of what the policies in Seattle has done to the city until so far later in the article. The local officials are very lax on drug use, homelessness.

We have entire tent cities. Petty crime is pretty high. The police won’t bother to respond if you report a car break in, for example. There’s trash littered on practically any street that has tents. Some of these folks are addicts and some aren’t but to say Seattle has solved this problem - you mean we just ignore laws and allow anyone to do whatever they want. Repeat criminal who was arrested last week? Here, we’ll keep you for an hour maybe and you’ll definitely be out by tomorrow.

I’m not advocating jailing all drug use so private prisons get rich, but Seattle’s extreme leftist take on pretending like the problem hasn’t been a disaster for the city is just absurd.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#28

Post by _jal »

taurath wrote: post #4

Interesting take on the situation - one key difference is I don’t feel any less safe now than 10 years ago walking around. I DO see more “open” use, and people walking around obviously on something, especially by the homeless (which makes sense even if they’re not using at a higher level). I don’t see the social services much though. IMO they could use more visibility. The prevailing opinion seems like we do “nothing…

> I don’t see the social services much though.

What are you expecting, naxolone-wielding ninjas? Most social service work happens in offices, shelters, medical facilities and various volunteer orgs.

I certainly agree that we could do with a lot more of it.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#29

Post by grawprog »

psychometry wrote: post #19
just_lurkin wrote: post #17

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

Supervised consumption sites would go a long way toward fixing the needle problem.

We have safe injection sites up here in Vancouver, you still find used needles lying around everywhere, depending where you go, only you also find the small saline packs and disposable spoons from the injection sites lying around with the used needles.

The police don't really seem to care. I've watched a couple of officers find a small pile of used needles at one of the skytrain stations, they laughed to each other said how they should be cleaning that up, then just left. I know about an hour later, a bunch of school kids take the bus I was waiting for. Calling and reporting it did nothing.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#30

Post by paggle »

dymk wrote: post #7

I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. It absolutely has had a negative impact on public safety here. They're offered public services, and they refuse them, because many of our "tiny villages" have no-drug-use policies, which they will not abide by. My city has one of the worst problems with repeat violent drug addicts in the nation (perhaps aside from the Bay) and yet we refuse to jail…

Just looked up the hot coffee case. It could only happen in a city with strict gun laws. In Texas someone would have enacted his sheriff fantasies on this perpetrator a long time ago.
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