In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs • Hacker News Board

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#101

Post by cat199 » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

JamesSchriver wrote: post #89

thomascgalvin wrote: post #8

> In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs. It is relying less on the criminal justice toolbox to deal with hard drugs and more on the public health toolbox. America's puritanical urges result in more self-harm than anything else. So much of the way our nation is structured is based on some ancient idea that you have to live clean and work hard in order to get to heaven. That is combined with a sen…

That's rather condescending and ignorant. It has nothing to do with puritanical urges, it has to do with personal responsibility and everyone being responsible for their own actions, which results in having to suffer the personal consequences without having the right to impose oneself on others by one's own choices in life. Unfortunately, this whole drug situation in the USA has gotten, like many things, totally out…

but then how would we back-channel support our preferred political factions in the drug producing countries??

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#102

Post by pgnas » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

Seattle is a poster child city for what NOT to do. Your politicians need to take their experiments someplace else. I was horrified at how terrible that city has become since I last was there.

Now, if i go there, you are allowing these drugged out zombies to steal from me and harass me? I don’t understand, I really do not.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#103

Post by asdfgasd » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #55

nikanj wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wars can also be ended by surrender, which Vancouver BC did. I understand Seattle’s approach has been similar: Grant de facto immunity to homeless people committing petty crime, stop all police enforcement of drug laws, and shame everyone who dares to complain.

> and shame everyone who dares to complain. And then watch at they turn on you by quietly voting for your opponents in greater and greater numbers as the problem worsens.

Why don't you offer an alternative solution then? Throwing the homeless people in jail is ineffective and immoral.

If your solution is drug treatment programs, great, but then don't argue against raising taxes to pay for them.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#104

Post by awakeasleep » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

notus wrote: post #72

dymk wrote: post #7

I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. It absolutely has had a negative impact on public safety here. They're offered public services, and they refuse them, because many of our "tiny villages" have no-drug-use policies, which they will not abide by. My city has one of the worst problems with repeat violent drug addicts in the nation (perhaps aside from the Bay) and yet we refuse to jail…

Solving community problems come with community sacrifices. I'm a big proponent of housing first, drug rehab second. It is exponentially harder to get clean without housing and a support network. Decriminalizing drug addiction is a good step in that direction IMO. I think another side of this coin though is we need to bring back institutionalization of mental health care. Implemented today it would be vastly different…

Housing first is effective for people who want our idea of a 'normal lifestyle'

I think people in this thread are asking you to question your assumption- do you think every drug addict on the west coast wants to hold down a job and live our normal life?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#105

Post by coryrc » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #73

malandrew wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and shame everyone who dares to complain. And then watch at they turn on you by quietly voting for your opponents in greater and greater numbers as the problem worsens.

... or fleeing to suburbs...

That's a big problem for those of us still here that would prefer enforcement; our fellow-minded voters have (probably rightly) chosen defect and left the city, rather than stay to vote for change. Suburb living also has twice the greenhouse gas impact as well.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#106

Post by sempron64 » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #63

diydsp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could say it incentivizes them to keep it at home, out of view of minors.

Hiding the world from our children instead of letting them see how awful the adults have made it is dishonest, at best. I prefer to teach kids how to find compassion for people in such situations.

Do you have kids? If you let them near active drug users as an object lesson, you need CPS called on you.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#107

Post by nostrebored » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #63

diydsp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could say it incentivizes them to keep it at home, out of view of minors.

Hiding the world from our children instead of letting them see how awful the adults have made it is dishonest, at best. I prefer to teach kids how to find compassion for people in such situations.

This might break the hacker news civility rules, but fuck this. Heroin has torn my family apart, resulted in multiple deaths (some of entirely unrelated people), and ruined my childhood. These people aren't pity props in some sort of fucked up game, they're humans and they're hurting themselves.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#108

Post by entropea » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #4

Interesting take on the situation - one key difference is I don’t feel any less safe now than 10 years ago walking around. I DO see more “open” use, and people walking around obviously on something, especially by the homeless (which makes sense even if they’re not using at a higher level). I don’t see the social services much though. IMO they could use more visibility. The prevailing opinion seems like we do “nothing…

>Interesting take on the situation - one key difference is I don’t feel any less safe now than 10 years ago walking around.

Exactly. I don't feel unsafe walking around Seattle at all, even with junkies screaming their heads off. You learn that they're in their own universe and don't really care about you.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#109

Post by thatswrong0 » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #60

thatswrong0 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds just like SF, and it's a large part of the reason I want to leave the west coast entirely and go somewhere with more sane policies.

If you think the west coast has insane policies, then you should really try living elsewhere for a bit of perspective. I've lived in WA, CA, VA and TX. No state has sane policies and the more I've moved, the more I've realized this. WA still ranks at the top of my list for states to live in.

Noted! Though I've lived in NYC before, and I think it has, at a glance, pretty sane policies for a giant diverse city (though I could be totally wrong!). It felt a lot safer there than it does in SF on a day-to-day basis. That's where I was planning on going.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#110

Post by jacobush » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

mieseratte wrote: post #34

dymk wrote: post #7

I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. It absolutely has had a negative impact on public safety here. They're offered public services, and they refuse them, because many of our "tiny villages" have no-drug-use policies, which they will not abide by. My city has one of the worst problems with repeat violent drug addicts in the nation (perhaps aside from the Bay) and yet we refuse to jail…

> He keeps failing at doing so, and the cops say "Can't do anything, he hasn't actually thrown somebody off". How does that play out such that they can't get him on some type of assault / harassment? Is he politely asking these women if they would like to be thrown off the overpass and politely walking off when they demur?

The cops probably noted the victim was a woman. No big deal?