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India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

nytimes.com

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Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#31

Post by ggm »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #21
ggm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with all those losses, the electric vehicle road trip is still better for the climate than driving a gasoline-powered car. Burning that much coal would release about 310 kilograms of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, compared with 350 kilograms by the 40 gallons of gasoline. Even though coal tends to emit more pollutants than oil for the amount of energy it generates, the efficiency of the electric vehicle, wh…

In India, most of the total power used is generated by coal. And yes, natural gas beats coal-powered electricity.

Only if you disregard how natural gas is made. Fracking, and fugitive gas, and transport costs you don't seem to care about make CNG and LNG highly suspect.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#32

Post by ggm »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18
ggm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fugitive gas from CNG is a thing. CNG comes from fracking, which wreaks havoc on the water table. You aren't considering the supply chain costs of CNG, but you implicitly do include them for coal, which comes from equally polluting sources.

NG is a byproduct of oil drilling. You either pipe and distribute to do work or burn it off. The former is much better environmentally than the latter. Countries with local NG supplies, especially developing ones, really should use them.

You really think all CNG comes from oil? CNG comes from shale rock-oil, and from in-ground burning of coal to encourage methane production. Any developing economy with access to cheap power should use it, but don't pretend it has no downsides. East Timor is struggling to modernise with a huge oil field offshore and revenue, the story is not all rosy.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#34

Post by pramit »

mastazi wrote: post #23

> It’s messy, improvised and driven by the people. The government and vehicle makers are now trying to gain some control over it. This is a good introduction but the rest of the article seems to side heavily with the latter (vehicle makers and startups like SmartE) while criticising the "homebrew" market for being "disorganised". I'm going to disagree for two reasons: 1. From a workers rights point of view, I'm not s…

I agree.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#35

Post by oska »

srean wrote: post #29
oska wrote: post #26

In the looping video at the top of the article, notice how confidently the woman in the red & yellow sari steps out in front of the rickshaw (making it wait for her to cross).

Right of way works a little differently in India, different from what you may be used to.

I like it. I like pedestrians asserting themselves in traffic.

I think in urban areas pedestrians should have precedence. Walking is our natural way of getting around.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#36

Post by Gibbon1 »

ggm wrote: post #31
Mikeb85 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In India, most of the total power used is generated by coal. And yes, natural gas beats coal-powered electricity.

Only if you disregard how natural gas is made. Fracking, and fugitive gas, and transport costs you don't seem to care about make CNG and LNG highly suspect.

Not to mention while CNG is better than gasoline which is way better than diesel. Small internal combustion engines produce large amounts of air pollution.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#38

Post by adrianN »

Aloha wrote: post #22
supermatt wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a governments smartness is defined by its investment in nuclear energy? why are renewables not a smart investment?

You still need to generate base load, only hydro out of the three renewables is good with base load, and no, batteries are not a replacement for base load generation. Pumped storage is, but it's pretty inefficient and requires the right physical siting to build.

A good grid, batteries and power-to-gas is a replacement for base load generation.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#39

Post by abhiminator »

mastazi wrote: post #23

> It’s messy, improvised and driven by the people. The government and vehicle makers are now trying to gain some control over it. This is a good introduction but the rest of the article seems to side heavily with the latter (vehicle makers and startups like SmartE) while criticising the "homebrew" market for being "disorganised". I'm going to disagree for two reasons: 1. From a workers rights point of view, I'm not s…

>1. From a workers rights point of view, I'm not sure that drivers renting their vehicle from a startup is better than drivers owning their own ride.

I agree with the gist of your comment, however, given that the majority of drivers in India are illiterate and not economically well off (especially considering the maintenance costs as a % of the vehicle's initial MSP), I think it makes sense for them to rent the e-rickshaws out from a centralized provider/operator -- initially, at least -- until the drivers reach a certain level of economic prosperity and familiarity with the technology.

Another option could be the mass training of vocational technicians and other auxiliary support staff in a co-operative framework to keep the whole operation running, thereby creating a ton of good, decently-paying side jobs in the process.

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