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India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

nytimes.com

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Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#21

Post by Mikeb85 »

ggm wrote: post #17
Mikeb85 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti...

Even with all those losses, the electric vehicle road trip is still better for the climate than driving a gasoline-powered car. Burning that much coal would release about 310 kilograms of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, compared with 350 kilograms by the 40 gallons of gasoline. Even though coal tends to emit more pollutants than oil for the amount of energy it generates, the efficiency of the electric vehicle, wh…

In India, most of the total power used is generated by coal. And yes, natural gas beats coal-powered electricity.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#22

Post by Aloha »

supermatt wrote: post #19
xvilka wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India also investing smartly in the nuclear technology, while less smart governments ditching it.

a governments smartness is defined by its investment in nuclear energy? why are renewables not a smart investment?

You still need to generate base load, only hydro out of the three renewables is good with base load, and no, batteries are not a replacement for base load generation. Pumped storage is, but it's pretty inefficient and requires the right physical siting to build.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#23

Post by mastazi »

> It’s messy, improvised and driven by the people. The government and vehicle makers are now trying to gain some control over it.

This is a good introduction but the rest of the article seems to side heavily with the latter (vehicle makers and startups like SmartE) while criticising the "homebrew" market for being "disorganised".

I'm going to disagree for two reasons:

1. From a workers rights point of view, I'm not sure that drivers renting their vehicle from a startup is better than drivers owning their own ride.

2. On a technological level a varied market with many alternatives can sometimes better facilitate innovation as opposed to an oligopoly limited to 2-3 larger actors.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about India in general, so my opinion is that of an uninformed external observer.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#24

Post by readme3 »

I read recently , just some numbers that many TPS (Thermal power stations) are slowly being shutdown , because of myriad of reasons including water shortages , coal emission norms and falling costs of power (TPS /unit power is much higher than other sources)

https://numerical.co.in/numerons/collection/5afecac0291c55fc...

There are places like Raichur (famous for Rice cultivation down here) that has Super thermal stations that shutdown due to lack of water.

In my home state , we can generate solar power from the rooftops and send it back to the grid and get paid for it. Best part is , I get the panel on a subsidized rate as well. Where i currently stay , solar water heaters are mandatory to get occupancy certificates for individual houses.

Without crediting anyone (and hence labeling myself as pro/con government) , recent norms have forced rethink of dirty fuels. Delhi had a ban on diesel passenger vehicles as well. An example is India's largest car manufacturer Maruti to stop diesel cars by 2020 (https://www.deccanherald.com/business/maruti-to-stop-making-...)

A combination of improved public transport (metros) and these little steps on energy self sufficiency will go a long way in the short to middle term (5-10 years is my guess)

In a hugely negative world , I find these heartening.We have unstable grids , but quite looking forward to stability in electricity.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#25

Post by 8bitsrule »

0xFFFE wrote: post #7
ggm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even dirty coal is possibly better than dirty diesel and petrol. Yes, its dirty: what kind of remediation can be done in a centralized generator, compared to distributed catalytic converters in exhaust (which fail in service, or are not fitted) and a huge burden in NO and related problems. Coal is bad, polluting, creates health hazards and we need to get rid of it. Petrol and Diesel are not "better" and there are rea…

India has an ambitious goal of generating 175GW from renewable sources by 2022. There are various solar power plants coming up all over the country. Source: https://www.niti.gov.in/reports [Line item 6] PS: NITI is the apex advisory body to the Indian Govt.

That's a remarkable commitment. In 2016, NDTV said that India produced 300GW, of which 42GW was renewable. So, the 175GW goal adds 3 times as much. Even 50GW of that going to transportation ... whew!

NITI's report (2015)* says there are still 300M people without electricity, but that "India’s solar potential is greater han 750 GW and its announced wind potential is 302 GW". A fine demonstration of what foresight, will and technical capability can accomplish.

* https://www.niti.gov.in/sites/default/files/energy/175-GW-Re...

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#27

Post by 0xFFFE »

readme3 wrote: post #24

I read recently , just some numbers that many TPS (Thermal power stations) are slowly being shutdown , because of myriad of reasons including water shortages , coal emission norms and falling costs of power (TPS /unit power is much higher than other sources) https://numerical.co.in/numerons/collection/5afecac0291c55fc... There are places like Raichur (famous for Rice cultivation down here) that has Super thermal stat…

If only we can get an efficient & cost effective Thorium reactor working, most of the coal plants can be shutdown much sooner. Going by publicly available data, we are no where near a working prototype.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#28

Post by knowThySelfx »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #10
harryVic wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coal power plants are more efficient than internal combustion engines. So yes, e-rickshaws are cleaner.

Are cleaner than CNG rickshaws?

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/environment/polluti...

"The compressed natural gas run buses are harmful for humans as they emit "nanocarbon" particles which can cause cancer, according to a study conducted by Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR).

Though the study was conducted on a very limited sample size in Delhi, CSIR took the findings seriously owing to the health hazard it poses to humans and alerted the central government for further follow up, CSIR's director general Dr MO Garg said on Thursday."

Could it breach Blood Brain Barrier? https://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=19339.php

"Another route by which nanoparticles can enter the brain is via the olfactory nerve, circumventing the blood-brain barrier. The olfactory nerve (nervus olfactorius) has a direct connection to the brain by way of its long processes (axons). It is therefore conceivable that inhaled nanoparticles enter the olfactory nerve and are transported to the brain along the axons"

It says nanoparticles. Not sure nano carbon is included in it.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#29

Post by srean »

oska wrote: post #26

In the looping video at the top of the article, notice how confidently the woman in the red & yellow sari steps out in front of the rickshaw (making it wait for her to cross).

Right of way works a little differently in India, different from what you may be used to.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#30

Post by ggm »

Aloha wrote: post #22
supermatt wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a governments smartness is defined by its investment in nuclear energy? why are renewables not a smart investment?

You still need to generate base load, only hydro out of the three renewables is good with base load, and no, batteries are not a replacement for base load generation. Pumped storage is, but it's pretty inefficient and requires the right physical siting to build.

Base load is a misnomer. Nowadays people talk about dispatchable power. base load is an economic forcing function to justify high efficiency "always-on" generation models. Nobody actually wants this, as much as they want power when they need it. Synchronous condensers, PH, and fast response batteries with some topping up from gas turbines could be as good. Base power is just the low engineering effort answer.

There are other answers than "base load"

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