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Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

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Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#41

Post by onemoresoop »

tinus_hn wrote: post #7
ceejayoz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems clear that e-cigs are better than smoking. It also seems clear that e-cig manufacturers are hoping to hook young non-smokers to expand their market. Both are valuable bits of info, but "e-cigs do confirmed damage" is extremely important info from a public health perspective.

It should also be clear that not using electronic cigarettes is better than using them.

> It should also be clear that not using electronic cigarettes is better than using them.

That is obvious. But switching the current cigarette smokers to electronic cigarettes seems clear to be a better alternative for both the smokers and the people around them.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#43

Post by LinuxBender »

Medicalidiot wrote: post #39

The number one controllable risk factor for stroke and heart attack is smoking. By far. Not diet, not exercise, smoking. A significant part of that is because nicotine will constrict blood vessels leading to hypertension[1], this leads to destruction of the surface of an artery, leading to atherosclerosis formation. One day the atherosclerotic plaque ruptures and then you see me. We once thought that atherosclerosis…

Have any of your patients tried reversing the plaque with k2/d3/magnesium. It works for lowering CAC scores, just curious if it also helps with any of the other buildup beyond calcium. Or perhaps serrapeptase/natto.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#44

Post by jolux »

umvi wrote: post #37
kuiper0x2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex is pretty cost free. Meditation is cost free. Unless you are defining time usage as a cost which is absurd.

> Sex is pretty cost free Not sure if you are joking or not, but I would wager the costs of sex are actually enormous even compared to drugs. Look no further than the costs and issues surrounding the following: adoption, foster care, abortion, child support, single parent welfare rates, STDs, etc. In theory sex is a "cost free" recreational activity, but in practice it isn't.

well, if you’re super careful with your contraception and have easy access to abortion...also lots of queer sex runs no risk of reproducing accidentally. STIs, on the other hand, are definitely a risk.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#45

Post by Duhck »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #38
program_whiz wrote: post #11

Many people seem to believe that vaping is harmless, this is good to make the point clearly that vaping, while not as harmful as smoking cigarettes, isn't a "cost free" activity. I personally didn't realize that it could have these effects either.

My main concern with the way things are going is that it looks an awful lot like attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes. I know of no one that things vaping is harmless. It is certainly much, much less harmful than cigarettes and is infinitely preferable to cigarettes. I quit smoking, with the help of vaping. I was a pack-a-day Newport smoker that started on a ludicrously high 36m…

What's the supporting evidence for your concern that "attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes"

Philip Morris (now known as Altria) put $13bn into Juul to do the exact opposite. The margins on vaping are higher, the current perception of vaping is that it's better than smoking, and it's way easier to get kids addicted to vaping than cigarettes.

I see too much evidence to the contrary... that big tobacco is now big vaping (which is really big nicotine).

We dont know just how bad vaping really is, it's hard to say its better than smoking, and its impossible to say its not bad for you at all.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#46

Post by brokensegue »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #38
program_whiz wrote: post #11

Many people seem to believe that vaping is harmless, this is good to make the point clearly that vaping, while not as harmful as smoking cigarettes, isn't a "cost free" activity. I personally didn't realize that it could have these effects either.

My main concern with the way things are going is that it looks an awful lot like attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes. I know of no one that things vaping is harmless. It is certainly much, much less harmful than cigarettes and is infinitely preferable to cigarettes. I quit smoking, with the help of vaping. I was a pack-a-day Newport smoker that started on a ludicrously high 36m…

The trouble is that studies haven't reliably shown vaping to be the superior smoking cessation aid. And if it's more dangerous than the patch...

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#47

Post by [deleted] »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #40
kuiper0x2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex is pretty cost free. Meditation is cost free. Unless you are defining time usage as a cost which is absurd.

Besides conception, sex exposes you to pathogens that might cost you your ability to reproduce or have sex again, or to live, in the worst case scenario. Sex is very much of a tradeoff, unless you're oblivious to the risks.

[deleted]

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#48

Post by ceejayoz »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #38
program_whiz wrote: post #11

Many people seem to believe that vaping is harmless, this is good to make the point clearly that vaping, while not as harmful as smoking cigarettes, isn't a "cost free" activity. I personally didn't realize that it could have these effects either.

My main concern with the way things are going is that it looks an awful lot like attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes. I know of no one that things vaping is harmless. It is certainly much, much less harmful than cigarettes and is infinitely preferable to cigarettes. I quit smoking, with the help of vaping. I was a pack-a-day Newport smoker that started on a ludicrously high 36m…

The problem is that smokers --> vaping is being offset by non-smokers --> vaping.

https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/jun/12/t...

> The CDC conducts an annual survey of tobacco use by middle and high school students, asking if they’ve used a tobacco product in the last 30 days. The most recent poll, released in February, found middle school use increased from 5.6% in 2017 to 7.2% in 2018; among high school students, it surged from 19.6% in 2017 to 27.1% last year.

> Almost all of the increase comes from e-cigarettes. Among middle school students, use rose from 3.3% in 2017 to 4.9% last year. Use nearly doubled among high schoolers, from 11.7% in 2017 to 20.8% in 2018.

> In other words, the number of high school smokers dropped by 1.2 million, while those using e-cigarettes rose by almost 3.5 million. That more than wipes out progress in reducing smoking during the last seven years.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#49

Post by close04 »

charliesharding wrote: post #15

I'm a little confused - can someone knowledgable in the area help out? In the introduction they assert: "Once inhaled, ultrafine particles and the oxidant species located on their surface can translocate into the vascular space (13), resulting in a state of chronic vascular inflammation and oxidative stress noxious to endothelial function." However in the conclusion they state: "Inhaling nicotine-free electronic ciga…

Transient in healthy nonsmokers. Since most vapers do it regularly it's a fair to assume that they are in a "permanently transient" state. A permanently acute state is basically a chronic state.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#50

Post by hombre_fatal »

jolux wrote: post #44
umvi wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sex is pretty cost free Not sure if you are joking or not, but I would wager the costs of sex are actually enormous even compared to drugs. Look no further than the costs and issues surrounding the following: adoption, foster care, abortion, child support, single parent welfare rates, STDs, etc. In theory sex is a "cost free" recreational activity, but in practice it isn't.

well, if you’re super careful with your contraception and have easy access to abortion...also lots of queer sex runs no risk of reproducing accidentally. STIs, on the other hand, are definitely a risk.

A man having casual sex is basically gambling that the condom works and that the woman will abort if it comes to that, something he has zero say in. I don't know how anyone can say sex is very risk-free.

As I get older, "don't stick your dick in crazy" makes more and more sense. Pretty much all the STIs in my demographic can be cured with a $20 pill. And almost all of my post-nut clarity revolves around fearing becoming a father prematurely.

I grew up hearing about the archetype of the heroic man getting laid constantly. In my 30s I now meet that man all the time: he's now saddled with a kid with a woman he rarely sees while trying to date for real.

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