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Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

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Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#31

Post by rolltiide »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #10
tinus_hn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should also be clear that not using electronic cigarettes is better than using them.

I've never seen anyone argue they are harmless, just that they are less harmful than actual cigarettes. The problem is that places are banning e-cigs, which presumably drives people back to smoking. Which is worse for everyone.

Getting banned in the US means you didn't pay enough people off.

Only difference between US municipalities and other markets is that it is masqueraded as an endorsement for good under a respected system of due process (even though it is often unilateral decisions by unelected officials at health agencies with delegated powers)

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#32

Post by kuiper0x2 »

mruts wrote: post #26
program_whiz wrote: post #11

Many people seem to believe that vaping is harmless, this is good to make the point clearly that vaping, while not as harmful as smoking cigarettes, isn't a "cost free" activity. I personally didn't realize that it could have these effects either.

I’m not sure there exists a cost free activity as far as people are concerned.

Sex is pretty cost free. Meditation is cost free.

Unless you are defining time usage as a cost which is absurd.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#33

Post by onemoresoop »

charliesharding wrote: post #15

I'm a little confused - can someone knowledgable in the area help out? In the introduction they assert: "Once inhaled, ultrafine particles and the oxidant species located on their surface can translocate into the vascular space (13), resulting in a state of chronic vascular inflammation and oxidative stress noxious to endothelial function." However in the conclusion they state: "Inhaling nicotine-free electronic ciga…

While I don't think e-cigarettes are completely harmless, anything can be proved (fudged in a way) if there is an intention to.

Yes, we don't know what the effects of vaping are but they appear to be a decent (and possibly more addictive) alternative to tobacco smokers who can't quit.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#34

Post by rolltiide »

aketchum wrote: post #17
oarabbus_ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen anyone argue they are harmless, just that they are less harmful than actual cigarettes. The problem is that places are banning e-cigs, which presumably drives people back to smoking. Which is worse for everyone.

Anecdotally, I hear many friends say they are harmless. Surprisingly a nurse friend of mine vapes Juuls and isn't worried about the health impacts. I think plenty of people actually take it that since they are not cigarettes and are "just nicotine" they don't worry about their safety.

> surprisingly a nurse friend of mine vapes Juuls and isn't worried about the health impacts.

Thats your nurse friend's own personal choice for their own body. The health professional aspect not being an endorsement, but maybe helps them decide what they will tolerate for their own body.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#35

Post by sawjet »

d1zzy wrote: post #5
ceejayoz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems clear that e-cigs are better than smoking. It also seems clear that e-cig manufacturers are hoping to hook young non-smokers to expand their market. Both are valuable bits of info, but "e-cigs do confirmed damage" is extremely important info from a public health perspective.

That's correct but I worry that all this will result in banning e-cigs (in my state at least), based on the idea that cigarettes (and many other things) wouldn't have been legal/popular if they appeared today but we tolerate them because they are already a thing. The last thing I want is for my SO to go back to smoking real cigs because e-cigs become unavailable here :(

There are tons of resources for building your own DIY e-cigarette. it might not be as slim and sleek as a Juul, but it will perform better, be cheaper to maintain and produce much less waste.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#37

Post by umvi »

kuiper0x2 wrote: post #32
mruts wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure there exists a cost free activity as far as people are concerned.

Sex is pretty cost free. Meditation is cost free. Unless you are defining time usage as a cost which is absurd.

> Sex is pretty cost free

Not sure if you are joking or not, but I would wager the costs of sex are actually enormous even compared to drugs. Look no further than the costs and issues surrounding the following: adoption, foster care, abortion, child support, single parent welfare rates, STDs, etc.

In theory sex is a "cost free" recreational activity, but in practice it isn't.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#38

Post by InvaderFizz »

program_whiz wrote: post #11

Many people seem to believe that vaping is harmless, this is good to make the point clearly that vaping, while not as harmful as smoking cigarettes, isn't a "cost free" activity. I personally didn't realize that it could have these effects either.

My main concern with the way things are going is that it looks an awful lot like attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes. I know of no one that things vaping is harmless. It is certainly much, much less harmful than cigarettes and is infinitely preferable to cigarettes.

I quit smoking, with the help of vaping. I was a pack-a-day Newport smoker that started on a ludicrously high 36mg nicotine level. I was down to 3mg within a year and quit entirely a year later.

This is a very common story for former smokers that switched to vaping. There is a theory in the vaping community, or maybe its an urban myth, that the lack of MAO inhibitors is what allows people who vape to essentially lose their addiction. What I can tell you is that stopping vaping after two years was painless, very much unlike attempting to cold turkey cigarettes.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#39

Post by Medicalidiot »

The number one controllable risk factor for stroke and heart attack is smoking. By far. Not diet, not exercise, smoking. A significant part of that is because nicotine will constrict blood vessels leading to hypertension[1], this leads to destruction of the surface of an artery, leading to atherosclerosis formation. One day the atherosclerotic plaque ruptures and then you see me.

We once thought that atherosclerosis is an old persons disease, where health habits later in life lead are what predicates plaque formation. The Army started noticing fatty streak formation(first stage of atherosclerosis)[2] in arteries of dead soldiers during autopsy, which now leads us to believe this starts in youth and progresses from there.

1) https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/vdp/2005/00000002...

2) https://media.jamanetwork.com/news-item/autopsy-based-study-...

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#40

Post by 8f2ab37a-ed6c »

kuiper0x2 wrote: post #32
mruts wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure there exists a cost free activity as far as people are concerned.

Sex is pretty cost free. Meditation is cost free. Unless you are defining time usage as a cost which is absurd.

Besides conception, sex exposes you to pathogens that might cost you your ability to reproduce or have sex again, or to live, in the worst case scenario. Sex is very much of a tradeoff, unless you're oblivious to the risks.
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